Kidlitchat Transcript – October 19
| 1:00 am | kidlitchat: | TOPIC: Is it MG or YA? How can you tell? Do you care? #kidlitchat |
| 1:01 am | laurielyoung: | Hi all! I’m back after a long break. Great topic?I’m all ears! #kidlitchat |
| 1:01 am | lisagailgreen: | Ok, I’m going to try to participate at least for a bit! #kidlitchat |
| 1:01 am | adamselzer: | Age of the characters and how they market it. That’s pretty much it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:01 am | bonnieadamson: | TOPIC: Is it MG or YA? How can you tell? Do you care? #kidlitchat |
| 1:01 am | ReadingVacation: | RT @gregpincus: TOPIC: Is it MG or YA? How can you tell? Do you care? #kidlitchat |
| 1:01 am | cindysku: | This is really good question because there are a lot of books that could be either MG or YA #kidlitchat |
| 1:01 am | Jane_George: | RT @kidlitchat: TOPIC: Is it MG or YA? How can you tell? Do you care? #kidlitchat |
| 1:01 am | jolantru: | RT @bonnieadamson: TOPIC: Is it MG or YA? How can you tell? Do you care? #kidlitchat |
| 1:02 am | overdunne: | Excellent choice for a topic! #kidlitchat |
| 1:02 am | lisagailgreen: | Agreed RT @adamselzer: Age of the characters and how they market it. That’s pretty much it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:02 am | gregpincus: | @adamselzer So you’d say it’s the house positioning the book that defines it? (And the age of the characters)? Not content? #kidlitchat |
| 1:02 am | cindysku: | I buy MG for my library section but sometimes I have trouble telling if it is an MG or a ya which goes in the teen section #kidlitchat |
| 1:03 am | PattyJMurphy: | @cindysku: What do you look for in MG titles? YA titles? #kidlitchat |
| 1:03 am | CarolTanzman: | there’s also diff. in YA — tween (lower end YA) and upper YA (definitely h.s.) #kidlitchat |
| 1:03 am | sharifwrites: | RT @jolantru: RT @bonnieadamson: TOPIC: Is it MG or YA? How can you tell? Do you care? #kidlitchat |
| 1:03 am | delzey: | i was told/taught that MG characters were @ a couple years older than the reader, YA were about the same age as the reader #kidlitchat |
| 1:03 am | adamselzer: | @gregpincus Pretty much. But just about any language or references to sex make it necessary to market as YA these days. #kidlitchat |
| 1:03 am | BleeBonn: | I’m excited to hear about this topic. #kidlitchat I have one story that I’m not sure about. I’ve been calling it MG |
| 1:04 am | EgmontUSA: | Okey doke. #kidlitchat |
| 1:04 am | EMKokie: | Seems to be a know-it-when-I-see-it combo of POV age of protag, themes & content – but that there are exceptions to most *rules* #kidlitchat |
| 1:04 am | adamselzer: | In the 70s/80s you could have sex/swearing in books about 11 year olds. Not anymore, though. #kidlitchat |
| 1:04 am | LaurelSnyder: | Good topic!!! #kidlitchat |
| 1:04 am | jennymckmoss: | Sex/violence factors into it, I think, so yes to content. #kidlitchat |
| 1:04 am | gregpincus: | I found this interview that @LeeWind did with MT Anderson quite interesting: http://bit.ly/aRYGe4 #kidlitchat |
| 1:04 am | EMKokie: | Seems MG *generally* focuses on the MC’s place in family/friends, maybe beginning of understanding of world outside family. #kidlitchat |
| 1:04 am | cindysku: | @PattyJMurphy Well I try to look at content and language used to see if the vocabulary is one my readers will understand. #kidlitchat |
| 1:04 am | planetalvina: | Hi all, I’m finishing up an edit but will try to join in a bit! #kidlitchat |
| 1:05 am | PattyJMurphy: | hi, @EgmontUSA …good to see you:) #kidlitchat |
| 1:05 am | adamselzer: | (well,not ACTUAL sex, but characters under 14 could talk about it back then). #kidlitchat |
| 1:05 am | EMKokie: | But YA seems to generally focus on the MC’s place beyond family/friends – ie, the larger world and future. #kidlitchat |
| 1:05 am | gregpincus: | In that interview, MT Anderson says he, personally, thinks of voice different in MG and in YA #kidlitchat |
| 1:05 am | overdunne: | My take (w 2 MG’ers and 1 YA at home…)MG: no sex. YA: possibly sex, or sexual references. It’s very tricky to know b4 reading #kidlitchat |
| 1:05 am | jennymckmoss: | I’ve seen THE KING OF ATTOLIA series called MG, but complexity of themes best enjoyed & understood by older kids (& adults) imho #kidlitchat |
| 1:05 am | EgmontUSA: | @adamselzer And yet that’s dictated by gatekeepers and the age of the reader — parents don’t want their 8yos reading about sex #kidlitchat |
| 1:05 am | gregpincus: | MT Anderson: “In writing middle grade, I imagine the voice going TOWARDS the reader.” #kidlitchat |
| 1:06 am | gregpincus: | MT Anderson: “In YA and adult, I imagine the voice coming FROM the narrator.” #kidlitchat |
| 1:06 am | EgmontGal: | First, @EgmontUSA is sick and supposed to be in bed. Second, I have a lot to say on this MG vs. YA topic. Get ready! #kidlitchat |
| 1:06 am | LarisaNaples: | I’m in for a bit. #kidlitchat I think YA is defined not just by sex, but by any focus on topics/concerns typical of adolescents vs. kids |
| 1:06 am | adamselzer: | But really, it’s like whether my ‘hood is west town, river west, or ukranian village. All based on how realtors are marketing it #kidlitchat |
| 1:06 am | karenrivers: | Isn’t it ultimately a marketing decision made by the publisher? Is it something you think about when you write? Am curious. #kidlitchat |
| 1:06 am | laurielyoung: | Linda Sue Park said that MG readers are learning about the world around them and YA are learning about their inner world. #kidlitchat |
| 1:06 am | jennymckmoss: | RT @cindysku: @PattyJMurphy try to look at content and language used to see if the vocabulary is one my readers will understand. #kidlitchat |
| 1:06 am | EMKokie: | Very interesting RT @gregpincus This interview that @LeeWind did with MT Anderson quite interesting: http://bit.ly/aRYGe4 #kidlitchat |
| 1:06 am | EgmontUSA: | @adamselzer I’d also argue that YA’s really made a big move in the last 10 years – and with that the older audience has grown. #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | overdunne: | @EgmontUSA agree #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | cindysku: | @PattyJMurphy I also look at the maturity level of the voice #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | susanjsteward: | @EMKokie The MG I like also deals with the larger world/future, but I feel MG kids are more hopeful that their small world … #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | EgmontGal: | @adamselzer Really? Sex and swearing were more ok in books for 11 years olds in the 70s than they are now? Give examples, pls. #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | jennymckmoss: | RT @laurielyoung: Linda Sue Park said MG readers learning about world around them and YA are learning about their inner world #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | PattyJMurphy: | @egmontusa: Take it easy. I hope you are feeling better soon. #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | EgmontUSA: | @EgmontGal I am curled up in bed in my PJs, laptop on my lap. #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | LaurelSnyder: | I think MG characters mostly engage in the external world/adventures/understanding others. YA characters think about themselves. #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | susanjsteward: | @EMKokie represents their big one, in a way. #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | delzey: | @karenrivers it doesn’t change what i write, but you have to know how to pitch it #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | jennymckmoss: | RT @EgmontUSA: @adamselzer Id also argue YAs made a big move in the last 10 years – and with that the older audience has grown #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | Mike_Mullin: | Could ARE YOU THERE GOD, IT’S ME, MARGARET be published as MG today? #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | LaurelSnyder: | @jennymckmoss That’s exactly how I see it! #kidlitchat |
| 1:07 am | TwilightsDance: | #kidlitchat what does MG mean? |
| 1:08 am | cindysku: | I will have MGs with references to sex but no sex #kidlitchat |
| 1:08 am | adamselzer: | @EgmontGal many books I read in 3rd grade used the S word. So did the Goonies. Betty Miles worked it in now and then. #kidlitchat |
| 1:08 am | LarisaNaples: | I think this is dead on: RT @EMKokie: MG *generally* focuses on the MC’s place in [... ] world outside family. #kidlitchat |
| 1:08 am | ColleenLindsay: | Hey, kidlit writers: Wanna know the difference between MG & YA, and why it matters? Join @EgmontGal at #kidlitchat right now! |
| 1:08 am | jennymckmoss: | Middle grade RT @TwilightsDance: #kidlitchat what does MG mean? #kidlitchat |
| 1:08 am | coffeelvnmom: | @TwilightsDance Middle Grade. #kidlitchat |
| 1:09 am | EgmontGal: | @adamselzer The Goonies is a movie. Pls give examples of books in your classroom–also shit much less bad than fuck in kid lit #kidlitchat |
| 1:09 am | denisejaden: | Hi all! And, I agree RT @gregpincus: In an interview, MT Anderson says he, personally, thinks of voice different in MG and in YA #kidlitchat |
| 1:09 am | jafhedlund: | @Mike_Mullin I sure hope so! (Are You There God it’s Me Margaret) #kidlitchat |
| 1:09 am | irinagonzalez: | RT @LaurelSnyder: I think MG characters mostly engage in the external world/adventures/understanding others. YA characters think about themselves. #kidlitchat |
| 1:09 am | laurielyoung: | RT @LaurelSnyder: MG characters mostly engage in the ext world/adventures/understanding others. YA char think about themselves. #kidlitchat |
| 1:09 am | EMKokie: | @susanjsteward I think it’s POV – MG MCs may be looking at world/place for the 1st time, but it’s in relation to family/friends #kidlitchat |
| 1:09 am | PattyJMurphy: | RT @adamselzer: @EgmontGal many books I read in 3rd grade…<<Were you reading up??? #kidlitchat |
| 1:09 am | adamselzer: | and Peter dances around actually talking about birds and bees in Superfudge, but I’d never get away with as much as he does now. #kidlitchat |
| 1:09 am | coffeelvnmom: | RT @ColleenLindsay Kidlit writers: Wanna know the difference between MG/YA & why it matters? Join @EgmontGal at #kidlitchat right now! |
| 1:09 am | overdunne: | In third grade my parents didn’t give a poo what I was reading. I, on the other hand, pre-read almost everything my kids read. #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | amyknichols: | Hi everyone. Late. Again.  #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | ReadingVacation: | Want to know what I think about MG vs YA? #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | Mike_Mullin: | @jafhedlund I’m skeptical. Can you think of a recent analogue? #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | jennymckmoss: | I’ve seen many MG girl readers enjoy YA books w/ romance. #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | overdunne: | so I don’t think we can relate what was then to what is now. BIG differences in the reading and parenting world… #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | gregpincus: | @readingvacation I’d love to hear what you think about it! #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | jafhedlund: | @overdunne Me too! I was reading Danielle Steele in 5th grade, but I always read what my kids read. #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | EgmontGal: | @adamselzer Superfudge? That’s Judy Blume! You’re not convincing me here… #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | jennymckmoss: | Yes RT @ReadingVacation: Want to know what I think about MG vs YA? #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | kellyhashway: | @ReadingVacation Let’s hear it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:10 am | mudmamba: | Most MG is still fairly bright and optimistic, at least at the end. YA is angsty and pessimistic. Descriptive, not prescriptive. #kidlitchat |
| 1:11 am | ShellyPicarella: | I think sex in any MG is a no no…not the act, not a mention…. If the kids want sexy themes- they should watch Disney lol.. #kidlitchat |
| 1:11 am | EMKokie: | Interesting RT @laurielyoung Linda Sue Park said MG readers are learning about world around them…YA about their inner world #kidlitchat |
| 1:11 am | delzey: | like MPAA ratings in reverse, what is acceptable for PG13 wouldn’t pass for middle grade today #kidlitchat |
| 1:11 am | Mike_Mullin: | @overdunne Great point. Is the helicopter parent generally more prevalent now? #kidlitchat |
| 1:11 am | karenrivers: | @ReadingVacation Yes! #kidlitchat |
| 1:11 am | LarisaNaples: | Not convinced re: MG=external & YA=internal. MG focus is on safe/curious externals and internals; YA on scarier sorts #kidlitchat |
| 1:11 am | jafhedlund: | @Mike_Mullin Maybe not, but it seems like AYTGIMM was aimed at girls going through puberty – def MG age, not HS #kidlitchat |
| 1:11 am | EgmontUSA: | @ShellyPicarella Just Lion King, Aladdin, and Little Mermaid, right? Hahaha #kidlitchat |
| 1:11 am | overdunne: | @jafhedlund I REMEMBER what I was reading then…maybe that’s why I check what they read. I want to preserve their innocence #kidlitchat |
| 1:11 am | cindysku: | I watched soaps operas with my mom in third grade and read the Godfather in seventh #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | LaurelSnyder: | Current WIP is MG, but MC is 12, & I was asked to add “awareness of boys” to story. Because she was too old not to notice them. #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | thereadingzone: | @Mike_Mullin YES. As a teacher, the helicopter parent is the norm nowadays #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | Jane_George: | @gregpincus Isn’t that a stylistic choice that can appear dated? Take Drums, Girls, and Dangerous Pie, for instance. Or Eggs. #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | cindysku: | I do not discourage tween and MG readers to read ya #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | bonnieadamson: | So is a classic “coming of age” story MG or YA? #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | susanjsteward: | I find hope and comfort in MG that I don’t find in YA. More (perhaps naive) belief that saving a friend=saving the world. #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | jafhedlund: | @overdunne LOL – same here! #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | EgmontUSA: | I’m wondering about the “should you care” part of this topic. #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | thereadingzone: | I have high school freshman who aren’t allowed to watch the news. A good handful of them! Lots of protective parents. #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | emilytastic: | @LaurelSnyder Yes, 12 is definitely right on the cusp — I love books that bridge the gap b/w MG & YA. #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | gregpincus: | @Jane_George He was talking about voice, not style, I think. How you think of the tone, not what you specifically write. #kidlitchat |
| 1:12 am | TwilightsDance: | @jennymckmoss thank you #kidlitchat |
| 1:13 am | LaurelSnyder: | @LarisaNaples I don’t think so. I think MG deals w/big scary issues, just the way kids see them– more concrete, more external. #kidlitchat |
| 1:13 am | Mike_Mullin: | @jafhedlund Can puberty be discussed honestly in a MG today? Can’t think of examples offhand, you? #kidlitchat |
| 1:13 am | EgmontUSA: | This is something I feel really strongly about as an acquiring editor, so I’m interested in hearing the writer’s perspective. #kidlitchat |
| 1:13 am | KateMessner: | I find the line between upper-MG and younger YA is pretty blurry, esp. those that target middle school readers. #kidlitchat |
| 1:13 am | HP4Writers: | RT @gregpincus: My fingers are loose, my eyes are already scrolling…. Yup. I’m ready for #kidlitchat! |
| 1:13 am | EMKokie: | Also seems MG usually deals with 1st sense of self as individual. YA with next step of defining individual needs/acting on them #kidlitchat |
| 1:13 am | emilytastic: | @EgmontUSA Me, too. I definitely write with audience in mind, but moreso with my characters in mind. They have to be authentic. #kidlitchat |
| 1:13 am | ShellyPicarella: | @EgmontUSA well… I was thinking more of the teen shows, but I suppose I could over-analyze the cartoons…lots o’ booby crack #kidlitchat |
| 1:13 am | EgmontUSA: | @emilytastic It’s funny — bookstores don’t. At least the big chains. That makes “tween” or UMG really hard for pubs. #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | PattyJMurphy: | @bonnieadamson: Can you define what you mean as “coming of age?” #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | LauraRenegar: | I went to a workshop by David Macinnis Gill on YA vs MG at a SCBWI-C Fall Conf. Here’s what I learned http://bit.ly/b8ymV8 #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | jafhedlund: | @Mike_Mullin You’ve got me. I can’t think of an example offhand, but it sure seems like it would be important to cover in MG… #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | jennymckmoss: | Kids are so different. I’ve seen teens who prefer MG fantasy because they like the innocence, hope, & magic in those stories. #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | gregpincus: | @EgmontUSA “Should you care” could = Do you make writing choices based on this? Are these vague rules meant to be broken? #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | LarisaNaples: | Maybe b/c of problems protags face? RT @mudmamba: Most MG is still fairly bright and optimistic. YA is angsty and pessimistic. #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | jafhedlund: | …but I don’t write MG, so I admit I don’t read as much of it as I do other genres. #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | hpinski: | Love this! RT @susanjsteward: I find hope and comfort in MG…belief that saving a friend=saving the world. #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | denisejaden: | Voice changes as the MC’s age changes. I can usually recognize MG on page 1, but have a harder time btwn ya and adult #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | EgmontUSA: | @ShellyPicarella You’re right. And yet the whiff of scandal has killed many a Disney career. #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | EMKokie: | Agree. Voice? RT @KateMessner The line between upper-MG & younger YA is pretty blurry, esp. those that target middle schoolers #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | LaurelSnyder: | @emilytastic Yes, it’s those books we used to call YA in the eighties, but are now MG. My new one is just that. Darker/older MG. #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | karenrivers: | @EgmontUSA I think as a writer, you have to be careful about how MUCH you care.Can get tripped up by overthinking “guidelines”. #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | jennymckmoss: | This RT @emilytastic: I definitely write with audience in mind, but moreso with my characters in mind. They have to be authentic #kidlitchat |
| 1:14 am | ReadingVacation: | MG = romance is crushes, no swearing, positive spin, characters usually not over 13, vocabulary easier, could be a G rated movie #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | bonnieadamson: | @PattyJMurphy Where a character first defines him/herself as an individual–makes a tough choice #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | emilytastic: | @EgmontUSA Yes. When I was a bookseller we sometimes had trouble figuring out where to shelve those books — true! #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | susanjsteward: | @KateMessner Everything I write is firmly in the fuzzy in-between land of “Ghosts I Have Been.” #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | DreamingReviews: | @EgmontUSA Not really following the chat atm, but your tweets have me intrigued. #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | jafhedlund: | @Mike_Mullin – if it’s not covered in MG, where is it covered? By HS, it’s oer #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | Mike_Mullin: | @jafhedlund I can’t think of any examples either, and I read tons in both YA and MG /shrug #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | kamtonnes: | @Mike_Mullin “Can puberty be discussed honestly in a MG today?” Phyllis Reynolds Naylor’s Alice books? #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | jennymckmoss: | RT @KateMessner: I find the line between upper-MG and younger YA is pretty blurry, esp. those that target middle school readers. #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | WendyMartinArt: | I like upper MG. Same deeper story lines but no overt sexuality. #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | emilytastic: | @EgmontUSA BUT a good handseller recognizes these books. If possible, it’s good to have reps talking to handsellers at indies. #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | LiaKeyes: | It’s been ages since I’ve visited #kidlitchat! Does anyone remember me, even? lol #kidlitchat |
| 1:15 am | Jane_George: | RT @jafhedlund: @Mike_Mullin – if it’s not covered in MG, where is it covered? By HS, it’s oer #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | EMKokie: | @jennymckmoss But the target reader seems to define genre, not the individual readers. #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | LaurelSnyder: | Bookseller told me that she really hoped my new books wouldn’t “look like YA” because it’s too hard to sell them to parents. #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | delzey: | @Mike_Mullin paulsen’s AMAZING LIFE OF BIRDS: THE 20 DAY PUBERTY JOURNAL DUANE HOMER LEECH is solidly MG #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | EgmontGal: | @overdunne Your comment interests me.Parents left you alone to read, why do you pre-read your kids books?Worried about content? #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | DreamingReviews: | @EgmontUSA I have an MG ARC with super stilted prose, and it makes me want to scream that MG readers still need GOOD WRITING. #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | HP4Writers: | RT @EMKokie: Seems MG *generally* focuses on the MC’s place in family/friends, maybe beginning of understanding of world outside family. #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | cindysku: | When I was in fifth and fourth grades kids would talk about sex on the bus. So kids are aware of sex. #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | PattyJMurphy: | @bonnieadamson: Thought that’s what you meant. IMHO that would be on the cusp of MG/YA…e.g. 13 years old. What do you think? #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | Mike_Mullin: | @ReadingVacation Which is completely not representative of a MG experience. Spend 5 mins in 6th grade classroom and you’ll see. #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | HP4Writers: | RT @EMKokie: But YA seems to generally focus on the MC’s place beyond family/friends – ie, the larger world and future. #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | bonnieadamson: | @Mike_Mullin Part-time Indian was most def. YA, correct? That’s the only example I can think of #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | KateMessner: | “Is it MG or YA” discussion happens w/ my editor, after the book is written. My 2012 title, for ex. is being marketed as 10-14. #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | jafhedlund: | @Mike_Mullin Hmmm… seems like a gap there/market opportunity #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | EgmontGal: | @emilytastic BUT tho’ we love love love handsellers but they are only a small part of a book’s total sales, usually #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | emilytastic: | @LaurelSnyder But your current books don’t look like YA. That is confusing to me, as a former bookseller. :/ #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | LarisaNaples: | @LaurelSnyder Good point. Age-appropriate scariness, but scary either way. Hmmm. #kidlitchat |
| 1:16 am | robinobryant: | @LaurelSnyder WHATEVS!! I don’t CARE if there is glitter & unicorns on the cover! If it’s a good read, I’m buying! #kidlitchat |
| 1:17 am | Mike_Mullin: | @kamtonnes Recommend a specific title? I’ve read her older work but not newer, sorry. #kidlitchat |
| 1:17 am | bonnieadamson: | @PattyJMurphy That’s my dilemma–char ages 12 to 15 . . . ????? #kidlitchat |
| 1:17 am | gregpincus: | Here’s a related question: do KIDS care about the MG/YA distinction? Or is it about subject matter and tone not labels? #kidlitchat |
| 1:17 am | thereadingzone: | Definitely a lot of room out there for the upper-MG/lower-YA books. #kidlitchat |
| 1:17 am | cynditefft: | my 4th grade daughter said a classmate is reading Hunger Games. Way too young for that violence IMO. #kidlitchat |
| 1:17 am | overdunne: | @EgmontUSA how do you classify? Is word count the initial cut off ? #kidlitchat |
| 1:17 am | EgmontGal: | Did I scare off @AdamSelzer or is he busy looking for examples of how middle grades have had to tone down since the 70s? #kidlitchat |
| 1:17 am | LiaKeyes: | What about the Adrian Mole diaries? #kidlitchat |
| 1:17 am | emilytastic: | @EgmontGal I realize. *sigh* And the shelving systems at some of the chains are super tricky. #kidlitchat |
| 1:17 am | jafhedlund: | Is there such a thing as “upper” and “lower” MG, like there is with YA? #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | KellyDHouse: | @KateMessner So, would 10-14 be upper MG/Young YA? #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | thereadingzone: | @gregpincus For my students, it’s about topic, cover, and author. MG/YA designation not imp unless ADULTS demand it to be #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | EMKokie: | @gregpincus They care about the covers – ie, harder to get the kids who want to be seen older to read young looking books. #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | delzey: | @gregpincus they care about covers, about looking like they’re reading something “older” so there’s that #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | bonnieadamson: | @gregpincus I think they’re influenced by how books are marketed, for sure–lol, photo on cover=cool #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | Mike_Mullin: | @BonnieAdamson Yes, marketed and shelved in YA, at least in every store I’ve been in lately. Alexie thought of it as adult #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | ReadingVacation: | @Mike_Mullin I am in 6th grade. It may not be reality for some kids but it is what I consider a good MG book. It is my reality #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | adamselzer: | @EgmontGal still around; still digging. Wasn’t prepared for source-citing debate tonight #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | EgmontUSA: | @gregpincus Kids don’t want to be reading what they think of as babyish (or at least, they don’t want their friends to know). #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | jafhedlund: | @EgmontGal Can you think of examples of MG books dealing with puberty issues? Who’s the Judy Blume of today? #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | HeatherMcCorkle: | @gregpincus. I think teens do care about the distinction. #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | EgmontGal: | @cynditefft There’s a big discussion on suitability of Hunger Games on @Hornbook‘s blog.But some 4th graders could handle it IMO #kidlitchat |
| 1:18 am | KateMessner: | @KellyDHouse Yep – Upper MG/Lower YA = Tween. #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | EMKokie: | Maybe the upperMG/youngerYA line is so hard because of the maturity leaps 12-13 year olds make – ie, kid to adolescent overnight #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | kamtonnes: | @Mike_Mullin Agony of Alice, Alice in Rapture Sort Of, All but Alice, Alice the Brave, etc. (Puberty in MG) #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | EgmontGal: | BUT though I know 4th graders who might like Hunger Games, I would pub it as YA #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | clairelegrand: | @gregpincus I think, for the most part, kids don’t care about labels. Most kids don’t know what MG or YA is, or why it matters. #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | LarisaNaples: | Does anyone buy the model of MG/YA distinction based on age-appropriate developmental issue addressed? #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | kellyhashway: | @jafhedlund I definitely think there’s upper and lower MG. I think that’s why upper MG gets confused with YA sometimes. #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | adamselzer: | @Mike_Mullin like they’d EVER market a book about a kid that age as adult. #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | ReadingVacation: | Oh yes, the cover and how the book is marketed help sell the book for my friends and I. #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | rj_anderson: | My faery books straddle the upper MG/lower YA line — 1st bk pubbed/pkgd as MG, 2nd pubbed/pkgd as YA. And they’re a SERIES. #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | EgmontUSA: | Do 8 yos care that they’re reading YA? No. Do 16 yos care that they’re reading MG? Maybe a little more. #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | jennymckmoss: | Love this RT @ReadingVacation It may not be reality for some kids but it is what I consider a good MG book. It is my reality #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | malindalo: | My novel ASH was marketed in UK for kids 8-12. In US, for teens 15+. And I wrote it for adults. *befuddlement* #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | LaurelSnyder: | @LiaKeyes I say YA. #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | HP4Writers: | RT @LaurelSnyder: I think MG characters mostly engage in the external world/adventures/understanding others. YA characters think about themselves. #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | EgmontGal: | @kamtonnes But the Alice books got older, became YA. And interestingly (to me) they lost audience. I thought that was too bad. #kidlitchat |
| 1:19 am | emilytastic: | @EgmontUSA @gregpincus I’ve been told that younger girls like to read about characters who are 2-3 years older than them. #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | jafhedlund: | @rj_anderson Yeah, but arguably J.K. Rowling did the same thing with HP – moved from MG to YA in one series #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | emilytastic: | @rj_anderson I’ve been wondering about that! I was so confused — I thought you had started a new series! #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | gregpincus: | RT @EgmontUSA: Do 8 yos care that they’re reading YA? No. Do 16 yos care that they’re reading MG? Maybe a little more. #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | Mike_Mullin: | @adamselzer Used to be common. Just changed ’cause publishers chase the $s #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | EgmontUSA: | @emilytastic Kids read up. #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | kellyhashway: | @rj_anderson Why would they split a series like that? #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | jennymckmoss: | @malindalo @rj_anderson I have similar experience w/ Shadow. #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | EllenHopkinsYA: | @malindalo Who published it? If you wrote it for adults, why is it in children’s at all?? #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | LaurelSnyder: | @robinobryant But if it was for a smart 9 year old, and looked like a YA, with lipsticky photo-face, would you? #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | overdunne: | @EgmontGal Hunger G has serious themes- but I find kids take what they want from it. They don’t see the horror, they see action #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | PattyJMurphy: | @KellyDHouse: But, there’s a huge difference b/t a 10 yos + a 14 yo. I imagine if it’s for 10-14 yos >> geared towards MG. #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | kamtonnes: | @EgmontGal I have been kind of careful which ones I get for my grades 4-6 library. (Alice) #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | cindysku: | RT @EgmontUSA: Do 8 yos care that they’re reading YA? No. Do 16 yos care that they’re reading MG? Maybe a little more. #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | elissacruz: | Checking in at #kidlitchat as they discussing MG and YA. And furiously taking notes for my Kidlit Con presentation. *scribbles* |
| 1:20 am | susanjsteward: | I was still reading MG novels in 17th grade. Go, me! #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | bonnieadamson: | @Mike_Mullin lol, I heard Wimpy Kid first conceived as adult memoir. #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | adamselzer: | @Mike_Mullin maybe if it was a fantasy novel…. if the protagonist is young, they’ll almost certainly market young. #kidlitchat |
| 1:20 am | EgmontGal: | @EgmontUSA Do 16 yos care if they’re seen reading MG?Yes, almost all do. Most teens not confident enuf to be seen reading “down” #kidlitchat |
| 1:21 am | delzey: | my kid’s summer reading lists includes books two grade levels above and below, so 6th graders see YA books on their lists #kidlitchat |
| 1:21 am | DreamingReviews: | I think that MG/YA is so flexible because most readers read books above and below their ‘age level’ all the time. #kidlitchat |
| 1:21 am | rj_anderson: | @kellyhashway 1st book didn’t sell to the chains. And teen bloggers seemed to like it once they got past the cover, so… #kidlitchat |
| 1:21 am | hatbooks: | YA vs. MG #kidlitchat on now, till 11 am Japan time #kidlitchat |
| 1:21 am | Mike_Mullin: | @malindalo Similar to Sherman Alexie’s experience with Absolutely True… #kidlitchat |
| 1:21 am | robinobryant: | @LaurelSnyder hmmm, good point. Kids do read up I guess, always wanting to be older. but what does YA “look” like? #kidlitchat |
| 1:21 am | kellyhashway: | @rj_anderson Okay, that makes more sense. #kidlitchat |
| 1:21 am | ReadingVacation: | @jennymckmoss I read YA too, but we keep it to the “younger” YA. I am in no hurry to grow up. #kidlitchat |
| 1:21 am | jafhedlund: | May be slightly off topic, but where is the divider between chapter books and MG? I’ve never been clear on that #kidlitchat |
| 1:21 am | emilytastic: | @malindalo Your book crosses over well. And that’s a good thing! #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | EgmontGal: | @overdunne That’s so well said. Hunger Games 1 truly reads like an adventure novel. And I’ve read it a dozen times. #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | jennymckmoss: | Go you! RT @susanjsteward: I was still reading MG novels in 17th grade. Go, me! #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | rj_anderson: | @emilytastic Yep, it is confusing — esp. since MG & YA are different areas of the bookstore. Many don’t know Book 1 exists. #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | EgmontUSA: | @EgmontGal Just to clarify that was following a tweet about being embarassed about your friends seeing what you’re reading. #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | BleeBonn: | @gregpincus my son is a mega reader doesn’t care about MG/YA – it’s all about the cover for him, if it looks good and is fantasy #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | LarisaNaples: | How about applying Erickson: MG deals w/ Industry vs Inferiority; YA deals w/ Identity vs Role Confusion issues #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | EMKokie: | @EgmontGal And often they’d have to go to a different section/library stack to get the younger books – and that is an issue. #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | gregpincus: | @ReadingVacation I’m in no hurry to grow up, either, just for the record #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | CynthiaCWillis: | Checking in during a busy, busy night. Great topic! #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | cindysku: | The over matters to the reader because they do not want to be seen reading a kiddie book if they are a teen #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | beingcrys: | @EgmontGal @EgmontUSA My 17 yo girl reads MG with a little YA almost exclusively. She loves it, and has no shame in it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | laurielyoung: | I’d like to know this too: RT @jafhedlund: May be slightly off topic, but where is the divider between chapter books and MG? #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | WriterRoss: | @EgmontUSA Excellent.Those 16 yr olds are reading books they loved when they were “younger” (MG-age), just maybe in private <g> #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | jennymckmoss: | RT @ReadingVacation I read YA too, but we keep it to the “younger” YA. I am in no hurry to grow up. #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | janflora: | RT @ReadingVacation: MG = romance is crushes, no swearing, positive spin, characters usually not over 13, vocabulary easier, could be a G rated movie #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | KellyDHouse: | @Mike_Mullin My daughter read one this summer, can’t remember what it’s called – but I think it was pub. 1979. Good discussions. #kidlitchat |
| 1:22 am | elissacruz: | Er, ignore those typos. #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | EgmontGal: | @beingcrys Yes, I said MOST and so did @egmontUSA. I read MG with no shame as a teen, too. #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | Mike_Mullin: | @ReadingVacation @jennymckmoss I don’t think it’s about growing up early. It’s about preparing yourself for the future. #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | adamselzer: | I believe Space Station Seventh Grade was conceived of as adult (now there’s an MG that had sex/swearing). #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | kamtonnes: | We often think that sex = YA. How much do we consider level of violence? Seems like parents care more about the first. #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | EgmontUSA: | @overdunne It’s the content more than word count intially. How the character deals with the world around them. #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | LaurelSnyder: | In this case, they were talking about photos of teen headshots on the front. But could be a lot of things, I guess. #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | EgmontUSA: | @elissacruz Well, maybe some of them are. (I hope they are.) #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | EgmontGal: | @laurielyoung No formal divider, but a lot of art and short chapters (and short books) helps define chapter books. #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | deegarretson: | @beingcrys My 15-year-old reads a lot of MG epic fantasy because there doesn’t seem to be as many choices in YA, #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | LaFabuliste: | Hello, hello! What are we talking about tonight? #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | KellyDHouse: | @Mike_Mullin I’ll try to find the title and author. Can’t think of any recently pub. titles that deal authentically w/ puberty. #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | EmilyEWeaver: | My 5th grader pulled moll flanders off the shelf because of the cover..hehe, he is actually reading it though! #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | LarisaNaples: | Hey! I still prefer MG novels to adult fare!! RT @susanjsteward: I was still reading MG novels in 17th grade. Go, me! #kidlitchat |
| 1:23 am | rj_anderson: | MG fantasy plays by different rules than MG contemporary — fairy tale influence opens it up to older characters & romance. #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | PuddleReader: | RT @BonnieAdamson So is a classic “coming of age” story MG or YA? #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | EgmontGal: | RT @EMKokie:l And often theyd have to go to a different section/library stack to get the younger books – and that is an issue. #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | ReadingVacation: | @DreamingReviews I agree on that. All my friends – 6th grade – read both MG and YA. #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | malindalo: | @jennymckmoss Is SHADOW pubbed older in the UK? Interesting. SHADOW is MG here, right? #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | hpinski: | Very gray area, I think. Content/word count? RT @jafhedlund: where is the divider between chapter books and MG? #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | delzey: | @laurielyoung 3rd grade. @ 4th grade schools begin introducing analysis and require more sophisticated books #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | adamselzer: | I know lots of YA-age kids who don’t care what anyone thinks of what they read, but that’s the top 5% of readers, not whole mkt #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | kamtonnes: | I don’t think of chapter books and MG as being different. #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | EgmontUSA: | @PuddleReader It depends on the story. #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | overdunne: | @EgmontGal my 10 yo and 12 yo read HG, and then ‘played HG’ behind our house. It was like playing cops&robbers in the 70s #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | LaFabuliste: | …test test tweet test? #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | kellybarnhill: | @adamselzer @Mike_Mullin Actually I can think of several Lit Fic titles with kid protags that are not shelved w/juvenile #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | jennymckmoss: | Me neither ( one reason I write MG/YA) RT @gregpincus: @ReadingVacation Im in no hurry to grow up, either, just for the record #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | emilytastic: | @rj_anderson When I was a bookseller, I would make sure to shelve series like this in the same section, probably YA. #kidlitchat |
| 1:24 am | rj_anderson: | Coming of age story more likely to be YA than MG. MG often deals with family relationships, YA with independence from family. #kidlitchat |
| 1:25 am | malindalo: | @rj_anderson I think “fairy tale” in general opens things up to crossing age groups. #kidlitchat |
| 1:25 am | laurielyoung: | @EgmontGal so page count divides chp and MG more than content? #kidlitchat |
| 1:25 am | ShellyPicarella: | @litdreamer I have seen many articles stating that a new author should not try to pitch a crossover MG-YA series #kidlitchat |
| 1:25 am | susanjsteward: | @EgmontUSA Agree. If I spotted “teen drama,” I really couldn’t duck out fast enough of that stuff, even as a teen. #kidlitchat |
| 1:25 am | fantasticalidea: | RT @malindalo: My novel ASH was marketed in UK for kids 8-12. In US, for teens 15+. And I wrote it for adults. *befuddlement* #kidlitchat |
| 1:25 am | rj_anderson: | @emilytastic My library shelves the series in both places, bless them. #kidlitchat |
| 1:25 am | gregpincus: | Thanks for all the replies on whether kids care. It seems true that books ARE judged on their cover. A lot. #kidlitchat |
| 1:25 am | malindalo: | @emilytastic Thanks. #kidlitchat |
| 1:25 am | Mike_Mullin: | @delzey @laurielyoung Depends on the school. Enlightened schools encourage free choice reading at the right level for student. #kidlitchat |
| 1:25 am | EgmontGal: | @adamselzer There are some books with kids or teens that are pub’d as adult tho.And we just lost one in auction to Penguin adult #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | jennymckmoss: | @malindalo I’ve seen my pub describe it as MG & as YA – depending on situation. I think the answer is it really can be both. #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | EgmontUSA: | @kamtonnes Oh I do! Chapterbooks are MUCH shorter. Shorter chapters. Easier language. Perhaps less development for depth. #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | EMKokie: | @PuddleReader I think coming of age can go either way, depending on POV/Voice & what the actual catalyst events are. #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | CynthiaCWillis: | RT @gregpincus: Thanks for all the replies on whether kids care. It seems true that books ARE judged on their cover. A lot. #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | deegarretson: | @adamselzer Good point. It’s really the top voracious readers who don’t care #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | LaFabuliste: | What are we talking about tonight? #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | emilytastic: | @kellybarnhill @adamselzer Me too. Age of protag does not define where the book is sheleved/marketed. I think it’s about tone. #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | ShellyPicarella: | @malindalo @rj_anderson “Fairy Tale” Now you are right up my alley. Must scan through to catch up! LOL #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | DreamingReviews: | @ReadingVacation I think they need to come up with a more appealing, across-the-board marketing style so they can be read more…#kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | rj_anderson: | @jennymckmoss I agree! SHADOW fits into that upper MG/lower YA category. Could be either. Or both. #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | WriterRoss: | When browsing the MG and picture book shelves in library, I feel eyes on me. (Librarians know me but oft feel awkward) #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | kellyhashway: | @rj_anderson Wow! I wouldn’t imagine libraries would shelve series in both places. #kidlitchat |
| 1:26 am | delzey: | @Mike_Mullin but not at the class level, when they need a unified text, chapter books are out. #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | EgmontGal: | @laurielyoung No, short chapters, art, reading level, age they’re aimed for all define chapter books. #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | overdunne: | @Egmontgal tweetchat is slow…re: reading as a kid- neither of my parents were readers. Not sure where I got it from… #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | Mike_Mullin: | @kellybarnhill @adamselzer Recent? Titles? Only ones I can think of have young minor chars. i.e. The Passage and Under Dome #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | kamtonnes: | @EgmontUSA Hmm… So Clementine = chapter book? Alice = MG? #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | ReadingVacation: | @gregpincus Seriously – the cover makes a HUGE difference. Some boys won’t touch a book with a pink cover or a girl on it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | PattyJMurphy: | RT @EgmontUSA: I do! Chapterbooks are MUCH shorter. Shorter chapters. Easier language, less development for depth. <<Me, too! #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | gregpincus: | @kamtonnes So then are Magic Treehouse books MG? What about Time Warp Trio? Junie B? #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | rj_anderson: | @kellyhashway Well, probably a lot don’t, but my local library is awesome. #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | malindalo: | The other day I was at a library that had both Teen & YA sections. Weirdly, YA was kept in children’s room. Teen w/ adult stuff. #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | EgmontUSA: | @ReadingVacation Exactly! #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | kellybarnhill: | RT @susanjsteward If I spotted “teen drama,” I really couldn’t duck out fast enough of that stuff, even as a teen. #kidlitchat SECONDED |
| 1:27 am | ReadingVacation: | @gregpincus Some kids won’t read a book if the cover is too babyish or cartoonish. #kidlitchat |
| 1:27 am | LarisaNaples: | So, are MG and YA books still primarily purchased in stores rather than e-tail? Seems like that would make a difference. #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | EmilyEWeaver: | My son’s 5th/6th grade school has all the Hunger Games books.. And this is in conservative southern missouri, he loved them #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | emilytastic: | @Mike_Mullin EXTREMELY LOUD & INCREDIBLY CLOSE by Foer, POV char is 8. #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | delzey: | that’s also a vocab issue i think RT @kamtonnes: @EgmontUSA Hmm… So Clementine = chapter book? Alice = MG? #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | amithaknight: | @WriterRoss my library has a great YA section. i often feel weird browsing through too. #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | irinagonzalez: | RT @rj_anderson: Coming of age story more likely to be YA than MG. MG often deals with family relationships, YA with independence from family. #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | gregpincus: | One of the arguments FOR e-readers, by the way, is that it takes “cover anxiety” away. #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | kellyhashway: | @rj_anderson True and local libraries like to help local writers. #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | EgmontGal: | @EmilyEWeaver I don’t pay any attention to word count so can’t really answer your ques, but older kids, stronger readers, for YA #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | rj_anderson: | @malindalo … I’m sorry, that does not compute. How odd! #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | bonnieadamson: | @PuddleReader Hmmm . . . I never thought of it that way. I guess I meant “typical” rather than “classic.” #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | amyknichols: | @gregpincus I would call those chapter books. ??? #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | delzey: | @gregpincus we shelved those as chapter books in our bookstore #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | planetalvina: | Okay, done! Was editing a MG novel, in case anyone is curious. Let me try to catch up on the discussion… #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | amithaknight: | @malindalo interesting. didn’t realize “teen” and “ya” were different things? #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | LaFabuliste: | @gregpincus Yeah, but then I can’t judge cute boys on the train by what books they’re reading. #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | ShellyPicarella: | @malindalo so what is the diffference between YA and Teen then???  #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | kellybarnhill: | @laurielyoung Neither. It’s the intended audience by the author. How we want the audience to experience the story. #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | EgmontUSA: | @gregpincus Those are all chapter books or if you want to breakdown further, easy readers (step before true middle grade) #kidlitchat |
| 1:28 am | kamtonnes: | I didn’t ever get an introduction to definition of chapter book vs. middle grade book. Never thought about it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:29 am | jafhedlund: | Yes, me too. RT @amyknichols: @gregpincus I would call those chapter books. ??? #kidlitchat |
| 1:29 am | PattyJMurphy: | RT @rj_anderson: @malindalo … Im sorry, that does not compute. How odd! <<–Yes, should be other way around. #kidlitchat |
| 1:29 am | malindalo: | @rj_anderson It did not compute with me either. I’m thinking there was a battle over content. #kidlitchat |
| 1:29 am | jennymckmoss: | @rj_anderson Yanno, I think fantasy might be more difficult to classify as straight YA or straight MG than other genres. #kidlitchat |
| 1:29 am | hpinski: | Time Warp is often listed as MG, which surprises me. RT @gregpincus: @kamtonnes…What about Time Warp Trio? #kidlitchat |
| 1:29 am | ReadingVacation: | @gregpincus Hey, sometimes I get tired of all the black covers that YA books have. They all start to look the same. #kidlitchat |
| 1:29 am | gregpincus: | @amyknichols @delzey Yes. I would argue that chapter books and MG are different. That was my point. I think #kidlitchat |
| 1:29 am | jafhedlund: | But where it gets trickier is between, say, Ivy & Bean (chapter?) and Tale of Despereaux (MG?) #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | WriterRoss: | @amithaknight Always a good thing the librarians know I write so I don’t feel like a stranger in a strange land. #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | susanjsteward: | I miss the days when “Dell Yearling” on a paperback spine was all I needed to see to know a book was FOR ME. #kidlitchat #MGlove |
| 1:30 am | malindalo: | @ShellyPicarella No idea! They didn’t know either. It was messed up. #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | amithaknight: | @LaFabuliste @gregpincus I love my Kindle but I miss book covers and also like seeing what people are reading on the subway. #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | LaFabuliste: | @jennymckmoss I think fantasy often has more cross over appeal, in general. Something new for readers of all ages, not just kids #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | KellyDHouse: | @jennymckmoss I agree about fantasy. #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | planetalvina: | We categorize chapter books as MG in our catalog, and still list them as 8-12, even though younger is more accurate. Shelving. #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | kamtonnes: | In my school library, I shelve all fiction together including picture books. (Tho’ not graphic novels) #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | gregpincus: | @LaFabuliste You can still judge the cute boys, but you’ll have to be more aggressive to see what they’re reading! #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | ChristieWild: | @hpinski @jafhedlund age of main character, too. #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | amyknichols: | @gregpincus Ah. Got it. Yes. Agree. #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | EMKokie: | @malindalo Did the “Teen” section include the graphic novels? I’ve been hearing controversy over housing GNs with adult. #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | ReadingVacation: | RT @gregpincus: One of the arguments FOR e-readers, by the way, is that it takes “cover anxiety” away. #kidlitchat Oh, that’s GOOD! |
| 1:30 am | EgmontUSA: | @kamtonnes I’d say yes. #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | cynditefft: | @EgmontGal I agree that parents have widely different views on violence levels ok in bks & movies #kidlitchat |
| 1:30 am | rj_anderson: | @jennymckmoss I think so. Usually the dividing line between MG & YA fantasy is how sexy/violent/dark the book is (or isn’t). #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | RebeccAgent: | joining late. sorry if I repeat what has already been said. #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | kellybarnhill: | @emilytastic @Mike_Mullin Yeah, the list goes on: FLIGHT, by Alexie, THE LITTLE FRIEND, by Tartt, THE BOOK OF RALPH,by mcnally #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | elissacruz: | I want an official answer on what the difference is between MG and tween. And YA and teen. #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | HP4Writers: | RT @ReadingVacation: @gregpincus Seriously – the cover makes a HUGE difference. Some boys won’t touch a book with a pink cover or a girl on it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | LaFabuliste: | Tweeetchaaaattt *shakes fists* Now watch this message will go through… #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | malindalo: | @EMKokie I’m not sure. I didn’t see GNs anywhere, but I wasn’t looking for them. #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | jafhedlund: | RT @susanjsteward: I miss the days when “Dell Yearling” on a paperback spine was all I needed to see to know a book was FOR ME. #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | planetalvina: | @RebeccAgent no worries, I just joined, too. #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | delzey: | ditto all imprints RT @susanjsteward: miss the days when “Dell Yearling” on spine was all I needed to know a book was FOR ME. #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | RebeccAgent: | I don’t need to writers subbitng to me to label their work MG or YA. That’s part of agent’s job or publishers #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | laurielyoung: | @ReadingVacation @gregpincus: ereaders also take away the impulse buy when you see a cool cover and want that book. #kidlitchat |
| 1:31 am | 2911ENT: | Wow! What a good conversation! Where do you draw the line between YA and adult in regards to sexual content? #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | RebeccAgent: | I do need the tone and content of the novel to be in synch with the age of the protagonist #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | kamtonnes: | @elissacruz I equate YA and teen. #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | EgmontGal: | My own parents never censored my reading but did try to control what movies I saw, now that I remember. Hmm… #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | bonnieadamson: | Soif fantasy obscures lines, what about historical? I’d say historical would skew younger even tho teen MC . . . agree? #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | ShellyPicarella: | @cynditefft @EgmontGal as a parent- I am okay with violence all in all- just not sex. Idk why, but thats a major no no. #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | LaFabuliste: | @2911ENT That’s perhaps a much larger conversation than can be had via 140 characters. #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | LarisaNaples: | Why I don’t write YA: RT @rj_anderson: Usually the dividing line between MG & YA fantasy is how sexy/violent/dark the book is. #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | kamtonnes: | What is the point of identifying books as chapter books or middle grades? #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | EmilyJiang: | @amithaknight The children’s section is always the first place I go, whether at the library or the bookstore. Let folks stare! #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | WriterRoss: | The topic was why the distinction matters. Who does the distinction matter to: parents or kids? I’m a live and let live reader. #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | emilytastic: | @kellybarnhill @Mike_Mullin THE SEAS by Hunt, UNDISCOVERED GYRL by Burnett, THE VISIBLES by Shepard…. #kidlitchat |
| 1:32 am | overdunne: | Hate to do it…but Harry started out as MG, but did it end that way? what do experts think? #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | hatbooks: | 14-15 y-olds I know tire of issues/darkness in much YA; prefer ‘lower YA”…do we need a term for middle-school-age books? #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | jennymckmoss: | @rj_anderson Right & if the fantasy isn’t sexy/violent/dark, then age of protagonist not as important to fantasy reader, imho. #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | RebeccAgent: | a 16 year old who sounds like a contemporary 12 year old and is dealing with 12 year old issues is problematic for me #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | PuddleReader: | @EgmontGal Ditto! I could read whatever I wanted, but t.v. and movies no WAY #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | LaFabuliste: | Only time I had a book taken from me was a romance novel. Was in DK for the summer– had already read everything else in English #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | amyknichols: | @ShellyPicarella That’s how I am, too, but also not sure why exactly. #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | ShellyPicarella: | @EgmontGal my parents did the same- I was told I could have any educational books- until I pushed it & used the $ for Kama Sutra #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | gregpincus: | @laurielyoung @readingvacation Not if you are in a place with wi-fi . Plus, you can STILL buy the physical book, ya know! #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | thereadingzone: | The distinction matters to parents (and school admin) more than kids. Adults want concrete lines bc it makes their lives easier. #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | WriterRoss: | @EgmontGal Same! I was reading Happy Hooker under the covers but they refused to let me see The Exorcist. ;} #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | planetalvina: | laurielyoung @ReadingVacation @gregpincus eBooks still have cover images, though. They just need to grab you in a smaller trim. #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | LarisaNaples: | RT @elissacruz: I want an official answer on what the difference is between MG and tween. And YA and teen. #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | EgmontUSA: | @overdunne I did think Harry Potter got older and darker as the characters aged and the series went along #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | susanjsteward: | @EgmontGal Mine, too. Though I suppose by buying Reader’s Digest Condensed, they WERE sort of censoring all our reading. #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | KateMessner: | @kamtonnes Chapter books are shorter, more white space, shorter chapters, often series. They support newer readers. #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | amithaknight: | @EmilyJiang if a store doesn’t have a good kid’s section, i don’t like hanging around. #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | CarolTanzman: | Tween? RT @hatbooks: do we need a term for middle-school-age books? #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | kamtonnes: | @ShellyPicarella “as a parent- I am okay with violence all in all- just not sex.” See, that really bothers me. #kidlitchat |
| 1:33 am | EgmontGal: | I can tell you a couple of respected,successful industry pro’s recently said they were categorizing as much as possible as YA… #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | _JessicaLove: | @gregpincus I have a boy pretty proudly reading Vegan Virgin Valentine in class. But he’s “popular” so maybe he doesn’t care. #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | rj_anderson: | @jennymckmoss Yes, exactly the point. As long as the MC isn’t over 18… but there are some exceptions even to that. #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | malindalo: | @jennymckmoss I agree w/ you about blurry lines between fantasy MG and YA, & age not mattering as much. #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | gregpincus: | @Mike_Mullin Yes, cover art still matters. We’re talking about kids not wanting to be seen with certain covers, though. #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | EmilyJiang: | @amithaknight The future Kindle/e-reader might be a two-way screen, so the back can show the cover of whatever you are reading? #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | deegarretson: | @kamtonnes you know a chapter book will be an easier read for a child than middle grade #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | EgmontGal: | …categorizing as much as possible as YA because it’s what’s selling now. That will change back sooner or later #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | stacylwhitman: | @planetalvina I sometimes wonder why I see younger chapter bks in MG section. Now I know why. Haven’t experienced that myself. #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | elissacruz: | @kamtonnes Chapter bks are really for those just getting started. MG are advanced Ch bks IMO. #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | MireyahWolfe: | RT @RebeccAgent: a 16 year old who sounds like a contemporary 12 year old and is dealing with 12 year old issues is problematic for me #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | emilytastic: | @EgmontGal Interesting — is this because YA is selling better than MG? #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | EgmontUSA: | @overdunne But I wouldn’t have a problem if my theoretical 8yo read that last book. Even w/ the curses that ultimately snuck in. #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | jennymckmoss: | @elissacruz This is the publishing business. No “official” answers to be found.  #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | EgmontGal: | @WriterRoss I read Vonnegut, Manchild in the Promised Land, Go Ask Alice but couldn’t see Cabaret. #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | KateMessner: | @EgmontUSA Yes – I’d put books Harry Potter 1-3 in MG category, while 4-7 lean YA, IMO. #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | gregpincus: | @planetalvina Again, though, it’s about me sitting and reading Forever while no one knows what I’m reading. I am “safe” #kidlitchat |
| 1:34 am | adamselzer: | The top 5% of readers don’t care about cover, etc. Can’t have a hit without the other 95, though. #kidlitchat |
| 1:35 am | EgmontGal: | Most memorably, my mother was worried about “Graphic bed scenes” in the Poseidon Adventure!!!! #kidlitchat |
| 1:35 am | LaFabuliste: | At my bookstore we had separate MG (9-12 yrs) and Chapter book (6-8 yrs) sections. #kidlitchat |
| 1:35 am | kamtonnes: | @KateMessner I guess I just think of shorter and longer chapter books. Y’all are calling the second category MG. #kidlitchat |
| 1:35 am | rj_anderson: | MG does not seem to get the same promotion/respect as YA, which is surprising given success of HP, the Percy Jackson books etc. #kidlitchat |
| 1:35 am | kellybarnhill: | @Mike_Mullin @adamselzer Another is Middlesex by Eugenides – bulk of the narrative is during childhood, but clearly adult book. #kidlitchat |
| 1:35 am | EgmontGal: | @adamselzer I’m not sure I even believe that. I would put myself in top 5% of readers and a good cover still grabs me. #kidlitchat |
| 1:35 am | Mike_Mullin: | @EgmontGal Of course–it sells. Simple demographics. Interesting to see what happens in a few years, though. #kidlitchat |
| 1:35 am | laurielyoung: | Ha! great idea: RT @EmilyJiang: @amithaknight The future Kindle/e-reader might be a two-way screen, so the back can show cover #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | delzey: | @kamtonnes kids see chapt books as a major leap in reading fluency, independence and seek them out #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | EgmontGal: | @Adamselzer. Sorry to be so argumentative tonight. I will agree with whatever you post next, so go for it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | HP4Writers: | RT @EgmontGal: I can tell you a couple of respected,successful industry pro’s recently said they were categorizing as much as possible as YA… #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | ShellyPicarella: | @kamtonnes I grew up on violent Bugs Bunny- but not Playboy- why does that bother you? #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | ReadingVacation: | Sometimes I start a YA book and then it turns out to be too “old” and I don’t finish it. YA is tricky that way. #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | elissacruz: | @thereadingzone Yes, we find on our MG-only blog that we have to be careful of what parents/teachers think, not MG readers. #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | rj_anderson: | @kamtonnes MG books are novels for proficient readers. Chapter books are especially geared to encourage new readers. #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | LaFabuliste: | I read slush for editor boss with a teen protag, but the narrator was the teen looking back on the yrs through an adult lens #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | overdunne: | I think the later HP books lean to YA, but they are in that grey area- And my real 8 yo is reading book 6 #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | adamselzer: | @EgmontGal Oh, don’t tempt me! #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | DHeiligman: | @EgmontGal images are harder to deal with than words if you are a kid not ready for them. #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | PuddleReader: | I think MG v. YA might be artificial, to some extent, too. Or reader dependent rather. #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | ReadingVacation: | My mom lets me get any book from the MG section of the library. For the YA section, she must approve it first. #kidlitchat |
| 1:36 am | elissacruz: | @jennymckmoss Aw, crumb. Something must be done about this officially non-official business. #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | EgmontGal: | @elissacruz It interested me that the kids and teens I know all liked Mockingjay, but some adults had problems with it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | EMKokie: | @adamselzer Or get it into libraries widely. There *are* collections decisions to be made, based in part on age of readers. #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | amithaknight: | @EmilyJiang interesting idea. #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | KateMessner: | My students do this, too. RT @ReadingVacation: Sometimes I start a YA book & it turns out to be too “old” and I don’t finish it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | overdunne: | again, in the HP books kids see the magic and the adventure, not the war, death, horror… #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | CarolTanzman: | it’s the way kids grow up. Sometimes they want to be older, sometimes they want to be a kid. Same 4books-choose both MG and YA #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | thereadingzone: | @rj_anderson I think a lot of MG crosses over into YA, but vice versa-harder.My HSers read MG but MG parents shy away from YA #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | rj_anderson: | As a young reader I had no idea of categories, I just read what interested me. But there was little in the way of YA back then. #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | kamtonnes: | @ShellyPicarella Because Playboy becomes the only version of sex that kids see (in secret). Never see healthy, normal versions. #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | Mike_Mullin: | @ReadingVacation That’s sad. #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | EgmontUSA: | @ReadingVacation I find your perspective really interesting because the kids I know your age can’t wait to grow up! #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | LaFabuliste: | HP is sort of the reason I say fantasy leans more crossover than “realistic” books in lots o’cases. #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | thereadingzone: | @EgmontGal A lot of my HS freshman were unhappy w/ Mockingjay. Seniors tended to like it more. #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | jennymckmoss: | @elissacruz Agreed #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | ReadingVacation: | And sometimes I am looking for a certain book and I don’t know which section to find it in. LOL #kidlitchat |
| 1:37 am | jafhedlund: | @overdunne and there’s no sex in HP #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | LaFabuliste: | Whereas adults read “real” ya they say “Oh, been there, done that,” but with fantasy, NO ONE has been there/done that. #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | WriterRoss: | @EgmontGal No wonder you’re a BroadwayBaby now. Making up for 4 lost time (& shows!) Parents had no qualms re: books @ home. . #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | amithaknight: | agree RT @thereadingzone: @rj_anderson I think a lot of MG crosses over into YA, but vice versa-harder… #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | EgmontUSA: | @ReadingVacation But I was totally like you. (Confession, I basically skipped YA growing up, but found it in college.) #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | thereadingzone: | Growing up, I had no idea about categories. I read what I liked in the library and what my 7th grade teaching aunt gave me. #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | rj_anderson: | @ReadingVacation I have that problem too! #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | EmilyJiang: | @amithaknight Agreed – am also lucky to live near bookstores completely dedicated to children’s books. Hope they survive. #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | ReadingVacation: | @Mike_Mullin Why is that sad? #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | kamtonnes: | @ShellyPicarella And I’m thinking of all the R-rated violent movies that kids see. And violent video games. And that’s okay? #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | deegarretson: | @ReadingVacation you sound like my daughter, some books she chooses not to read yet #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | amyknichols: | @kamtonnes That’s an interesting way to look at it, and one I will take into consideration as my kids get older. Thank you! #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | PuddleReader: | For ex I read Madeleine L’Engle’s A Ring of Endless Light for first time at 11. Loved it, but paid attn to difft elements at 15! #kidlitchat |
| 1:38 am | EgmontGal: | @thereadingzone Oh! Interesting. Mockingjay’s a bold book (no spoilers) not as easily enjoyable as Hunger Games. #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | kellybarnhill: | @overdunne Right, it’s the adults who see that. But that’s normal right? Kids USUALLY gloss over adult concerns in real life. #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | thereadingzone: | @elissacruz #kidlitchat I found most of my 6th graders self-censored. Parents were very tough, though! |
| 1:39 am | EMKokie: | @jafhedlund There were references to snogging off the page – and implications of more – if you were looking for it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | PuddleReader: | Wow took me three tries to get the hashtag right!!! #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | elissacruz: | As a MG writer (and MG blogger), it has been hugely frustrating to see the lack of MG love. That will change… #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | ShellyPicarella: | @kamtonnes what is healthy norm? 15 and preg- married with children- or drunk at bar? LOL #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | DHeiligman: | I blogged re this recently; why we didn’t censor our kids’ reading, but steered them away from scary movies. #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | HConvair: | @ReadingVacation What does MG stand for? I’ve never heard this abbreviation. #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | BleeBonn: | @rj_anderson I didn’t know about categories either and I’m so thankful my parents didn’t censor me! #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | delzey: | i wonder how different things would have been if i’d had YA books growing up. went straight to adult books @ 14 #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | EgmontUSA: | @PuddleReader I remember coming back the the L’Engle books I loved as a younger reader in HS and seeing them very differently. #kidlitchat |
| 1:39 am | Mike_Mullin: | @ReadingVacation Implies a weird lack of trust in books. Why trust them less than Twitter! #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | ReadingVacation: | @EgmontUSA My parents say I am kind of old-fashioned. LOL #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | kellybarnhill: | @EgmontUSA I think most of us did. Also, when I was a kid, the “teen” section novels largely were uninteresting to me #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | LaFabuliste: | @EgmontGal I agree. Roomies asked me if I liked it. Couldn’t tell them that much until after they finished. Not a “fun” read. #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | rj_anderson: | @kamtonnes May find this essay of interest re why violence is less concern than sex to some parents: http://bit.ly/9RODAj #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | jennymckmoss: | @EgmontGal @adamselzer I’m a sucker for a tantalizing/beautiful/interesting cover. #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | EmilyJiang: | @RebeccAgent What about a 16 year old character living 70 years ago and reflecting the sensibility of contemporary 12 year old? #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | EMKokie: | @elissacruz I don’t see lack of MG love – I see people begging for good MG. IMO, it’s just harder to nail the MG voice. #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | thereadingzone: | @EgmontUSA Oh! Same here re: L’Engle. And see them differently again as an adult #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | beingcrys: | @thereadingzone My 14yo didn’t like Mockingjay, neither did his classmates. They couldn’t really say why though. @EgmontGal #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | hpinski: | I agree! RT @elissacruz: …it has been hugely frustrating to see the lack of MG love. That will change… #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | ShellyPicarella: | @kamtonnes most people are shocked- but we dont even allow a game system in the house- we have books and brains…. #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | Mike_Mullin: | @ReadingVacation I mean, she’ll let you talk to random strangers in a public, global chatroom but not read what you want? Cripes #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | ReadingVacation: | @HConvair Middle Grade #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | WriterRoss: | Reading a solitary act. Yet put me in a cinema next to my mom and a sex scene and I cringe. Don’t want her to see those things! #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | elissacruz: | …if our MG plan for world domination works, that is . #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | adamselzer: | @EgmontUSA I did the same with Pinkwater and Spinelli. #kidlitchat |
| 1:40 am | overdunne: | @kellybarnhill classic example of that-Narnia books. Read them as a kid- amazing. Read them now-amazing but for difft reasons #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | kellybarnhill: | @EgmontUSA More indication that we’re in a great age for kid’s literature. Felt that as a teacher, as a mom, and as a writer. #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | ReadingVacation: | @Mike_Mullin My parents monitor my twitter, blog, email. They also monitor my YA books. It’s all good with me. #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | WendyMartinArt: | @elissacruz Oh it will. It will. Bwahahaha #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | thereadingzone: | MG covers such a huge age span- the difference between 10 and 14 is light years. I think that’s why the MG “voice” is tough #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | EMKokie: | @EmilyJiang That seems backward – wouldn’t a 16 year old 70 years ago be closer to adulthood than a modern 16 year old? #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | janflora: | RT @ReadingVacation: @gregpincus Hey, sometimes I get tired of all the black covers that YA books have. They all start to look the same. #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | junegoodwin: | @HConvair MG stand for Middle Grade (novel) #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | LaFabuliste: | Pah, violence and sex in books. There is such thing as safe sex. No such thing as safe violence. #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | EgmontGal: | It wasn’t the L’Engle’s so much for me as sex & romance that I missed entirely in some books,and was WOW when I read 3 yrs later #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | NoraMacFarlane: | @thereadingzone In a litigious society, this is necessary. Elementary teacher CYA. #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | laurielyoung: | @elissacruz  #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | elissacruz: | @EMKokie It’s there with the pubs, though. (No offence, pubs.) They say they want it, but it’s still hard to sell MG. #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | EgmontUSA: | @kellybarnhill But I’m not sure if I was a teen today that I would still be skipping. I think it would be more of a YA adult mix #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | kamtonnes: | @ShellyPicarella I guess I’m talking about realistic, healthy, age appropriate portrayals of sexuality. #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | HConvair: | @ReadingVacation Never seen that, and I work in a junior high. Must be a new marketing strategy. #kidlitchat |
| 1:41 am | ReadingVacation: | @Mike_Mullin They are sitting across the room and peeking in on my twitter tonight. Hi Mom! Hi Dad! Gotta’ watch the weirdos. #kidlitchat |
| 1:42 am | thereadingzone: | @beingcrys @EgmontGal #kidlitchat Exactly! They have a hard time expressing why they didn’t enjoy it, other than “it just wasn’t as good” |
| 1:42 am | amithaknight: | @EMKokie re:nailing voice very true. my crit group is very good telling me when I’m sounding like an adult. #kidlitchat |
| 1:42 am | EgmontGal: | @thereadingzone 14 isn’t middle grade, though. But 4th graders and 6th graders are worlds apart, to your point. #kidlitchat |
| 1:42 am | kamtonnes: | RT @LaFabuliste: “Pah, violence and sex in books. There is such thing as safe sex. No such thing as safe violence.” YES! #kidlitchat |
| 1:42 am | gregpincus: | @Mike_Mullin I think you’re making assumptions that sound like judgments, if you don’t mind my saying. #kidlitchat |
| 1:42 am | rj_anderson: | @EgmontGal I had opposite reaction — sometimes as young teen thought books sexier than they actually were when I read as adult! #kidlitchat |
| 1:42 am | EMKokie: | @elissacruz Yeah, because it’s hard to do well – they are begging for it. But the voice has to be dead on. Lots of wips aren’t. #kidlitchat |
| 1:42 am | Mike_Mullin: | @EMKokie @EmilyJiang No, menarch has been trending steadily downward for the last century. 16 yrs is ‘older’ today. #kidlitchat |
| 1:42 am | RebeccAgent: | I’m sorry to pick on one tweet but I’m sick of the “it’s harder to sell MG” moan. #kidlitchat |
| 1:42 am | LarisaNaples: | .@LaFabuliste: Not just HP. Sci-Fi/Fantasy crosses over for all ages b/c distance from reality allays fear. #kidlitchat |
| 1:42 am | coffeelvnmom: | @Mike_Mullin I disagree. I think parents *should* okay their younger children reading YA. It’s YA for a reason. #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | ReadingVacation: | @Mike_Mullin Oh, and I don’t want to read the YA ones that are too old either. #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | MyraMcEntire: | RT @ReadingVacation: @Mike_Mullin They are sitting across the room and peeking in on my twitter tonight. Hi Mom! Hi Dad! Gotta’ watch the weirdos. #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | EgmontGal: | @rj_anderson I reread a bunch of my teen favorites last summer, the romance did seem tame to me now #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | swatiavasthi: | Aha! I’ve caught a bit of of #kidlitchat. What’s the topic? |
| 1:43 am | delzey: | i hear YA is defined as 19-24 in UK and AUS, but in the US it’s 14+. are we pushing kids to fast? #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | LaFabuliste: | @LarisaNaples Yes. HP’s just a really, really good example. #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | amithaknight: | RT @thereadingzone: MG covers a huge age span- the diff b/w 10 and 14 is light years. I think thats why the MG “voice” is tough #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | adamselzer: | MG voice is tough cos it has to be easy 2 read & flow well 4 readers who may not read as fast as chars talk. hard 2 time jokes #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | RebeccAgent: | For the most part (excluding books like HP- the blockbusters) MG books sell by appealing to gatekeepers (librarians, teachers) #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | emilytastic: | @EgmontGal In 7thgr. I was asked to try reading adult books for vocab sheets. Read lots of Piers Anthony. Missed all the sex. #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | kellybarnhill: | @RebeccAgent I agree! #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | rj_anderson: | @EgmontGal I remember thinking Mary Stewart’s TOUCH NOT THE CAT very racy in 8th grade. Heh. #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | EgmontGal: | @RebeccAgent So am I sick of the “it’s harder to sell MG” but we’ve got the statistics to back it up, unfortunately #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | Mike_Mullin: | @gregpincus I don’t mind at all–specifics please, so I can refute or change them. #kidlitchat |
| 1:43 am | ReadingVacation: | @deegarretson Yep. There are LOTS of books I do not want to read yet. LOTS. #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | KellyDHouse: | RT @coffeelvnmom: @Mike_Mullin I disagree. I think parents *should* okay their younger children reading YA. Its YA for a reason. #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | elissacruz: | @HConvair MG=Middle-grade. Apparently the MG world domination has some hard work ahead. #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | beingcrys: | @thereadingzone He’s in 7th, reads at 12th – still couldn’t say. I couldn’t say. But I didn’t love HG either. @EgmontGal #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | MyraMcEntire: | @ReadingVacation I think a lot of the blogging community watches out for you, too. Because we love you! #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | EgmontUSA: | @RebeccAgent Would you agree, though, that it’s harder to find good middle grade? #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | PuddleReader: | @delzey According to NyTimes, yes! #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | ShellyPicarella: | @kamtonnes I get that, and I don’t want to see it in my kids books even at 13-17 bc thats not healthy age app lit #kidlitchat ya know? |
| 1:44 am | RebeccAgent: | …starred reviews, and awards, being in Scholastic clubs and in curriculum MAKE MG #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | LaFabuliste: | @delzey I think that might just be a different use of the term/a marketing thing. Maybe our teens just don’t like the word teen? #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | EgmontGal: | @adamselzer IT IS hard to time jokes in middle grade. I recommend Sachar, Cleary…in other words, look at the greats. #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | sherryberrett: | @adamselzer but it isn’t just the voice. It’s the mood. MGs have a smalltightrope in the mood they portray. #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | gregpincus: | @RebeccAgent Ahhh. Interesting. MG sells to gatekeepers. YA sales are driven by the reader?: #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | kellybarnhill: | @RebeccAgent It’s not harder to sell MG, it’s harder to *write* MG. I think anyway. #kidlitchat |
| 1:44 am | EMKokie: | @delzey No, no one is “pushing” YA – It’s about market demand, not “pushing”. WHat are teens demanding to read. #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | ShellyPicarella: | @delzey I think we do push….I really do… #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | KateMessner: | @Mike_Mullin FYI- @readingvacation is a young bk blogger & part of this community.I love that she’s here w/ her parents’ support #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | ReadingVacation: | @Mike_Mullin You are not a weirdo. It’s a mutual trust between me and my parents – they monitor what I do and I am okay with it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | RebeccAgent: | YA is bought by teens and is most often read for their entertainment #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | octoberdaniels: | RT @ReadingVacation: @gregpincus Hey, sometimes I get tired of all the black covers that YA books have. They all start to look the same. #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | EMKokie: | That makes sense. RT @gregpincus Ahhh. Interesting. MG sells to gatekeepers. YA sales are driven by the reader? #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | kimberlyjsmith: | I think many MG books appeal to younger readers who read up (a 3rd grader w 5th grade reading level. #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | EgmontGal: | @gregpincus exactly. With YA we go straight to the readers, who have stores, word of mouth, the internet. MG harder #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | ReadingVacation: | @MyraMcEntire Thanks. #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | beingcrys: | @thereadingzone I wouldn’t let my 4th grader read Hunger Games. It would traumatize her. #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | abbymumford: | RT @gregpincus: MT Anderson: “In writing middle grade, I imagine the voice going TOWARDS the reader.” #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | kamtonnes: | @ShellyPicarella But kids that age are developing sexual feelings and may need some models for how to deal with it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | Mike_Mullin: | @coffeelvnmom That sort of control is a mirage today. YA novels are a better place to find tough topics than the alternatives. #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | abbymumford: | RT @gregpincus: MT Anderson: “In YA and adult, I imagine the voice coming FROM the narrator.” #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | rj_anderson: | @ReadingVacation I think you have a wonderful healthy attitude toward both reading and your parents’ involvement. Good for you! #kidlitchat |
| 1:45 am | overdunne: | Back to word count, though…why can’t big books be MG in content?? #kidlitchat |
| 1:46 am | elissacruz: | @EgmontGal I’m sick of the MG harder to sell stats, too. Sigh. #kidlitchat |
| 1:46 am | deegarretson: | I just blogged about this today. One way writers go wrong in trying to capture a middle grade voice is by going too snarky #kidlitchat |
| 1:46 am | amithaknight: | LOL! RT @octoberdaniels: @readingvacation A million vampire bks w/black cover & closeup of a girls neck/shoulders can’t be wrong #kidlitchat |
| 1:46 am | EmilyJiang: | @EgmontUSA @PuddleReader I also re-read the L’Engle novels (age 11 & post-college) & found more layers. They are classics! #kidlitchat |
| 1:46 am | 2911ENT: | @LaFabuliste I know! I’m editing a YA WIP and was just wondering about this. Want it to be realistic, but not overboard #kidlitchat |
| 1:46 am | RebeccAgent: | I don’t think it’s harder to find good MG @egmontusa. I think what it means to be good MG can be diff than what = good YA #kidlitchat |
| 1:46 am | kimberlyjsmith: | So stories that appeal to that age group? Fablehaven, Percy Jackson… lots of fantasy. Yes? #kidlitchat |
| 1:46 am | LaFabuliste: | Also, MG isn’t quite as glamorous as YA, to be honest. Ppl my age, the next gen of writers, may want the glory, not the kids. #kidlitchat |
| 1:46 am | kellybarnhill: | @EgmontUSA @RebeccAgent With MG you’re writing multiple books at once – the book the kid reads and the book the adult reads. #kidlitchat |
| 1:46 am | adamselzer: | @octoberdaniels but try one w/o a cover like that and the chain stores will freak out. #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | stacylwhitman: | @EmilyJiang I think it’s definitely possible to do historical that reflects beliefs of time w/out compromising today’s values #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | overdunne: | By big I mean more than 45k. #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | hpinski: | @RebeccAgent Can you expand on this? #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | rj_anderson: | I don’t think MG is harder to sell, but the promotional approach is v different and maybe that’s why it seems YA is “bigger”? #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | stacylwhitman: | @EmilyJiang But it’s very hard. #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | PaulWHankins: | Hello, #kidlitchat. Just catching up/returning from a workshop with some KY Media Specialists/Librarians. Super Group. Plugged this chat! |
| 1:47 am | jafhedlund: | RT @kamtonnes: @ShellyPicarella ..kids that age are developing sexual feelings and may need some models for how to deal with it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | ShellyPicarella: | @kamtonnes then let’s write a book about the joy of hands…(diamonds are forever so are STDs which 1 comes first?) #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | delzey: | @LaFabuliste TENDER MORSELS was intended for an older aud. but lanagan says US pub insisted on YA tag for sales, marketing #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | LaFabuliste: | @overdunne Kids are intimidated. In selling, would often have kids shy away from thicker bks, auto thinking they were too hard. #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | susanjsteward: | @gregpincus I feel like that’s something of a slam on MG writers. Like “PARENTS like YOUR books. Young readers choose ours!” #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | kellybarnhill: | @EgmontUSA @RebeccAgent PLUS the book needs to be rich enough to give the reader more and more in multiple reads. Tall order,no? #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | amyknichols: | @deegarretson I read your post. Found it very helpful. #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | thereadingzone: | @kimberlyjsmith With my 6th graders, realistic fiction was MUCH more popular than fantasy/sci-fi. And funny books always worked. #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | kamtonnes: | @rj_anderson “…why violence is less concern than sex to some parents: http://bit.ly/9RODAj” Thx, interesting, disagree : ) #kidlitchat |
| 1:47 am | EgmontGal: | @kellybarnhill No with MG you’re writing the book the kid reads, and your pub is figuring out how to get gatekeepers interested #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | EgmontUSA: | I LOVE MG, but I think I see far fewer good MGs come through in submissions than YA. Is it that my expectations are too high? #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | storysnoops: | @elissacruz Not sure about middle grade but tween in defined as 9-12, YA as 14 and up usually. Teen is 13 and up #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | bonnieadamson: | @PaulWHankins Thank you, sir–and welcome! #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | kimberlyjsmith: | @kellybarnhill Hmm never thought of it that way. Adult reader/kid reader. #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | PuddleReader: | @delzey @LaFabuliste Isn’t that true of The Book Thief, too? It was adult in Australia and pushed into YA in U.S. #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | elissacruz: | IMO, YA has more attention because more teens are online, therefore it’s easier to reach that audience. Not so with MGers. #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | LaFabuliste: | @delzey Sure. But I don’t think book marketing is what may or may not be forcing kids to grow up too fast. #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | amyknichols: | @LaFabuliste That makes me sad. #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | gregpincus: | @ixtumea @EgmontGal There are always exceptions. And maybe younger kids will drive decisions as they get online more. #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | RebeccAgent: | I think YA purpose can be primarily to entertain. That makes it good. I think MG has do achieve more to be good MG #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | kimberlyjsmith: | @thereadingzone I think 6th grade is definitely the turning point. Fantasy is pegged as for little kids to them. #kidlitchat |
| 1:48 am | coffeelvnmom: | @gregpincus And thank you for speaking up about that, because I agree. #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | overdunne: | @LaFabuliste Most kids I know are more concerned about the story than how big the book is. Parents? Teachers? maybe #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | RebeccAgent: | which is not to say that there isn’t great YA that does much more than just entertain #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | rj_anderson: | @kamtonnes Disagree that this is what some parents are thinking? I’m not endorsing the mindset, only explaining it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | EgmontGal: | @overdunne Well, long books can be MG in content. But keep in mind, some MG kids intimidated by length, thickness, “hard” books #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | deegarretson: | @amyknichols thanks! I spend a lot of time trying to get voice right, so I analzye to death #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | LaFabuliste: | @amyknichols What does? #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | kelleemoye: | @thereadingzone I think giving feedback about how one feels about books has to be taught. It comes with maturity. #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | adamselzer: | @elissacruz Right. You don’t get 50 kids wanting to run giveaways with an MG. #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | RebeccAgent: | I think you can get good sales numbers in YA by just entertaining the target aud. but not for MG #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | delzey: | @LaFabuliste no, it’s about adults using a marketing term that doesn’t fit the intended audience #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | jennymckmoss: | How much of YA market is selling to adults these days? Could it be one reason YA doing so well? (ex: THE HUNGER GAMES, TWILIGHT) #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | thereadingzone: | @kimberlyjsmith Yet my HS freshman fly to the fantasy shelves in my room. It’s an interesting phenomenon #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | kelleemoye: | @thereadingzone I think giving feedback about how one feels about books has to be taught. #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | stacylwhitman: | @EMKokie Yes, but also more innocent, in many cultures. #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | KellyDHouse: | @EgmontUSA NO! Keep high expectations – there’s no reason to dumb down quality b/c the audience is younger. Ex: DiCamillo #kidlitchat |
| 1:49 am | LaFabuliste: | @overdunne Of course, it depends on the reader. Especially reluctant ones. I imagine it’s the same as me seeing a messy room…. #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | abbymumford: | #kidlitchat is fascinating tonight. Sad to be tuning in late. But glad I am catching the tail end. |
| 1:50 am | EgmontGal: | @gregpincus Wimpy kid is not exactly a low selling MG. But I’m talking averages. And we can’t market directly to kids on line #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | Mike_Mullin: | @susanjsteward @gregpincus I think it is something of a slam. And it’s justified. Too much MG panders to the gatekeeper. #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | ReadingVacation: | @KateMessner Thanks #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | LaFabuliste: | @overdunne I get freaked out and I give up before I even take the time to start working my way through. #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | jennymckmoss: | RT @thereadingzone: @kimberlyjsmith Yet my HS freshman fly to the fantasy shelves in my room. Its an interesting phenomenon #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | jafhedlund: | True 4 my DD RT @overdunne long books can be MG in content. But keep in mind, some MG kids intimidated by length, thickness #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | HeidiRKling: | @jennymckmoss Definitely! Adults are munching up YA like crazy. #kidlitchat <jumps in for one second. ;D |
| 1:50 am | NoraMacFarlane: | RT @coffeelvnmom: @Mike_Mullin I disagree. I think parents *should* okay their younger children reading YA. It’s YA for a reason. #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | overdunne: | @jennymckmoss too true #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | kamtonnes: | @rj_anderson No, thx for sharing their POV. Disagree w/ their POV. Need to learn about chocolate to make decisions about it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | kimberlyjsmith: | @thereadingzone Interesting. Like a funky “gap” in the tween age group. #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | ReadingVacation: | @rj_anderson Thank you! My parents are the best. #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | EgmontUSA: | @KellyDHouse Don’t worry. I won’t settle. #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | PuddleReader: | @RebeccAgent Do you think MG has to achieve more b/c of the adult mediator or potential buyer? or b/c that’s what kids want? #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | TaliaVance: | Yay! Home in time for tail end of #kidlitchat; in the new release section of my local Borders, MG is right next to YA |
| 1:50 am | EmilyJiang: | @EMKokie Good point. Sensibility is also influenced by how sheltered an upbringing and/or exposure to certain kinds of info. #kidlitchat |
| 1:50 am | delzey: | @PuddleReader yup #kidlitchat |
| 1:51 am | EMKokie: | @ShellyPicarella Many kids don’t stick to “hands” – at least not voluntarily. And those who want to, will, regardless of books. #kidlitchat |
| 1:51 am | amyknichols: | @LaFabuliste Writers writing for glory, not for kids. #kidlitchat |
| 1:51 am | Mike_Mullin: | @RebeccAgent Why? Why is entertainment not a sufficient goal for MG? Why shouldn’t YA aspire to more than mere entertainment? #kidlitchat |
| 1:51 am | CarolTanzman: | Right on.RT @jennymckmoss: How much of YA market is selling to adults these days? Could it be one reason YA doing so well? #kidlitchat |
| 1:51 am | DelilahSDawson: | When I first queried my MG, I thought it had lower YA potential. Then I started reading more YA and realized I was crazy. #kidlitchat |
| 1:51 am | LiaKeyes: | Good for you! RT @EgmontUSA: @KellyDHouse Dont worry. I wont settle. #kidlitchat |
| 1:51 am | rj_anderson: | @kamtonnes Ah. Gotcha. #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | deegospel: | RT @rj_anderson: I don’t think MG is harder to sell, but the promotional approach is v different and maybe that’s why it seems YA is “bigger”? #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | RebeccAgent: | I am not saying that YA shouldn’t aspire to do more than entertain, but it’s not a requirement for a book to sell big #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | kellybarnhill: | @EgmontGal True, but think of HP and Despereaux and other gems. The book I read is DIFFERENT than the book my kid read, right? #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | LaFabuliste: | @amyknichols Meh. I don’t know if that’s the case. I just have theories revolving around the internet, fandoms, and movie deals #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | junegoodwin: | @NoraMacFarlane I liked The Duff, but hesitate to let kids read it because it has so much profanity and casual sex in it. #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | EgmontGal: | RT @DelilahSDawson:When I first queried my MG,I thought it had lower YA potential.I started reading more YA,realized I was crazy #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | NoraMacFarlane: | @Mike_Mullin I heartily agree with @coffeelvnmom. Parents should okay their younger children reading YA. It’s called parenting. #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | kimberlyjsmith: | @delilahsdawson Me too. It became more about the story and less about the age of the MC as I had first thought. #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | jennymckmoss: | @ReadingVacation You’re the best! Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | PuddleReader: | @2911ENT Those tend to be the books that stick around on the prominent shelves and get dog-eared in my house! #kidlitchat |
| 1:52 am | AudryT: | @EmilyJiang @EMKokie A sheltered upbringing can lead to a kid being more shocked by or disturbed by stories they’re not used to. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | ReadingVacation: | @jafhedlund YES. My little brother used to be afraid of LONG books, but once he read one he only wants the long ones now. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | ShellyPicarella: | @EMKokie and I suppose sticky pages mess up resale value? LOL… That is where parents come in, I suppose, talking- openly #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | literaticat: | Wait what did I miss!? This looks fantastic. #kidlitchat #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | RebeccAgent: | a MG book needs to appeal to multiple avenues (librarians, parents, teachers, and kids themselves) to sell big #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | MyraMcEntire: | Sometimes I feel like MG has a better potential for longevity than YA. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | delzey: | where would they have been shelved before there was YA? @jennymckmoss: How much of YA market is selling to adults these days? #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | TaliaVance: | I only ever see the “big” MGs in my local store- the rest get lost in the children’s section among chapter books, et al. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | kamtonnes: | Great conversation! Thanks, all! Must get to bed. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | kelleemoye: | @beingcrys @thereadingzone I didn’t have Hunger Games in my 6th grade class but I put it in my 7th. 1 yr makes a huge difference #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | susanjsteward: | @DelilahSDawson I know just what you mean. Fact is, I’ve just got a MG mindset. It’s not that I’m less developed as a reader. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | Mike_Mullin: | @junegoodwin @NoraMacFarlane Because there’s no profanity or sex on the internet or TV? Because kids can’t handle it? Why? #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | RebeccAgent: | I am not saying that I don’t want to see submissions of literary YA…not by a long shot #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | EgmontUSA: | @literaticat More fantastic now that you’re here. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | EmilyJiang: | @Mike_Mullin @EMKokie Perhaps the issue is a 16 yr old’s knowledge/savviness vs. readiness for adult situations, like marriage. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | LiaKeyes: | @NoraMacFarlane Wish parents didn’t veto as much as they do – they should read the book alongside the child and discuss! #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | kellybarnhill: | @EgmontGal Teachers call it “the golden age of reading”. Grades 4-8, when kids experience is both immediate and teleological #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | RebeccAgent: | publishing people…am I making sense? #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | EMKokie: | @AudryT And that’s where I do agree that parents have to know and be involved with their own kids’ reading choices. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | kelleemoye: | @EgmontUSA @RebeccAgent There is fabulous MG novels out there just as there are with all levels of books. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | emilytastic: | @literaticat We’re talking about the differences between MG & YA. Marketing, writing, etc. #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | ShellyPicarella: | @EMKokie but I don’t think such topics should be for youth entertainment..maybe education- not entertainment- #kidlitchat |
| 1:53 am | rj_anderson: | @MyraMcEntire I think it does. My all time favorites, the ones I come back to again and again? Mostly MG. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | ReadingVacation: | @jennymckmoss Thank you. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | elissacruz: | @adamselzer You can, however, get 50 MG authors (or adults) to donate 50 books to a library. Or so I’ve been told. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | gregpincus: | @Mike_Mullin Interesting. You think som panders to the gatekeeper… or is it written to be what one “thinks” kids would like? #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | susanjsteward: | @RebeccAgent Honestly, lately I feel like it just needs a slacker boy character and lots of line drawings to sell big. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | Brent_Watson41: | @MyraMcEntire I totally agree. MG targets a much more impressionable age, IMO. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | KellyDHouse: | RT @MyraMcEntire: Sometimes I feel like MG has a better potential for longevity than YA. –> Yes! I agree. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | kimberlyjsmith: | @rebeccagent MG readers or YA readers have to connect with the character and the story — that’s entertaining in itself. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | Mike_Mullin: | @RebeccAgent I disagree. Even Twilight has a subtext, and without it might well not have been as popular. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | literaticat: | @EgmontUSA *glows* #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | rj_anderson: | I think the 8-12 age range is where kids are most likely to find books they will love and re-read for the rest of their lives. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | kathleenfoucart: | Wish I could join #kidlitchat tonight– great topic! But I have revision-brain & would be totally incoherent. Maybe next week! |
| 1:54 am | LiaKeyes: | @MyraMcEntire I do think YA will evolve a lot more. It’s a rather narrow genre right now. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | LaFabuliste: | @RebeccAgent Yes. The thing I like most about children’s/ya is it’s ability to be both entertaining and GOOD at the same time. #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | kellybarnhill: | YES! @RebeccAgent a MG book needs to appeal to multiple avenues (librarians, parents, teachers, and kids themselves) to sell big #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | HeidiRKling: | @MyraMcEntire Yeah–I think really really trendy YA may not be long lasting. Think they’ll pick 4-5 good ones from the genre- #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | amyknichols: | Agree RT @LiaKeyes Wish parents didn’t veto as much as they do – they should read the book alongside the child and discuss #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | EgmontUSA: | @RebeccAgent I do understand what you’re saying. I agree that you have to get through gatekeepers for mid grade. . . . #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | hpinski: | Lots of MG gets lost RT @TaliaVance: I only ever see the “big” MGs in my local store- the rest get lost…among chapter books #kidlitchat |
| 1:54 am | EMKokie: | @ShellyPicarella Totally 100% disagree. YA novels should speak to teens about their world, not the world we wished they lived in #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | janflora: | RT @thereadingzone: MG covers such a huge age span- the difference between 10 and 14 is light years. I think that’s why the MG “voice” is tough #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | fullofstars: | Our store has a huge MG section. We’re having to expand it! It’s one of my favorites to sell from, the kids are always excited. #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | stacylwhitman: | RT @RebeccAgent: For the most part (excluding books like HP- the blockbusters) MG books sell by appealing to gatekeepers (librarians, teachers) #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | hatbooks: | RT @RebeccAgent: a MG book needs to appeal to multiple avenues (librarians, parents, teachers, and kids themselves) to sell big #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | ShellyPicarella: | @EMKokie And then, if an adult writes sex scenes for a book meant for minors- where do child porn lines come in to play? #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | jennymckmoss: | RT @RebeccAgent: a MG book needs to appeal to multiple avenues (librarians, parents, teachers, and kids themselves) to sell big #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | LaFabuliste: | Whereas sometimes adult books feel like they have to pick one or the other. #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | elissacruz: | @MyraMcEntire I agree. Look at the Newbery…most are MG titles, not YA. #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | overdunne: | I think that when we read, we make our own pictures. HP on the movie screen is a heck of alot scarier than in the written word #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | coffeelvnmom: | @Mike_Mullin I’m far from worried about tough topics w/my 3 daughters – we discuss everything. I’m worried about INFLUENCES. #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | KateMessner: | Yes! RT @rj_anderson:I think 8-12 range is where kids are most likely to find bks they’ll love & re-read for rest of their lives #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | amithaknight: | @LiaKeyes why “narrow”? #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | EgmontUSA: | @RebeccAgent I just think it’s much harder to get MG attention if you don’t have a name — harder than YA. #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | EmilyJiang: | @literaticat Officially the topic is MG vs. YA. Officially. #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | bkfaerie: | @EgmontUSA #kidlitchat What’s MG stand for? Middle Grade? |
| 1:55 am | EgmontGal: | @RebeccAgent I can’t find your response, but that question was so hard to answer in 140 characters I decided to let you field it #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | AudryT: | @EMKokie It’s why, if I had a kid, I’d lead them to tough subjects, to ease them into understanding hard stuff early in life. #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | beingcrys: | @kelleemoye @thereadingzone Oh it absolutely does. Especially for a book like that one. #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | junegoodwin: | @Mike_Mullin Just because it’s so prevalent doesn’t make it right. They’ll see it soon enough without my help. #kidlitchat |
| 1:55 am | Mike_Mullin: | @EmilyJiang @EMKokie One of the BEST ways to get more savvy is to experience situations vicariously, via a novel not in person. #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | kelleemoye: | @susanjsteward And some really funny jokes #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | WendyMartinArt: | @elissacruz who told you that? #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | EgmontUSA: | @AudryT Yup! #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | kimberlyjsmith: | @readingvacation @jafhedlund It’s the reading-up kids I mentioned — they aspire to be “big kid readers” so long books = good. #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | wordofmousebook: | RT @KateMessner: Yes! RT @rj_anderson:I think 8-12 range is where kids are most likely to find bks they’ll love & re-read for rest of their lives #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | adamselzer: | If you won’t let your kid read ANY book, you’d better not let your teenager work in a restaurant. #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | EMKokie: | @ShellyPicarella Honestly, starting to scare me – lol. Writing scenes for teens with age appropriate sexual info =/= porn. #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | RebeccAgent: | also not saying that commercial YA lacks any craft. Twilight is well crafted but it serves it’s target aud by entertaining 1st #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | NoraMacFarlane: | RT @KateMessner: Yes! RT @rj_anderson:I think 8-12 range is where kids are most likely to find bks they’ll love & re-read for rest of their lives #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | LiaKeyes: | Totally. RT @RebeccAgent: Excl books like HP & blockbusters, MG books sell by appealing to gatekeepers (librarians, teachers) #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | coffeelvnmom: | @NoraMacFarlane Thank you! It’s the same, IMO, as letting a 9 or 10 year old watch an R rated movie w/o checking it out first. #Kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | overdunne: | …therefore my kids must read the books before seeing the movies. #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | ShellyPicarella: | @Mike_Mullin do you HAVE kids? #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | EgmontGal: | @literaticat I know you are excited about @EgmontUSA‘s kind words, but she does have a fever. #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | Mike_Mullin: | @ShellyPicarella @EMKokie I call red herring (unless you can give an example–none occurs to me). #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | LaFabuliste: | MG vs. YA is the topic? Really? How did we get here from there? #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | kelleemoye: | MG (Middle school especially) is so important because it is really where the love of reading is made or broken… #kidlitchat |
| 1:56 am | LiaKeyes: | YES! RT @Mike_Mullin: One of the BEST ways to get more savvy is to experience situations vicariously, via a novel not in person. #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | susanjsteward: | @kelleemoye And I forgot–some gross-out stuff, which I suppose is the “really funny” part. #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | beingcrys: | @junegoodwin @NoraMacFarlane Is it so bad for them to read about what they go through? #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | kimberlyjsmith: | From readers or agents/editors? #kidlitchat RT @egmontusa I just think it’s much harder to get MG attention if you don’t have a name. |
| 1:57 am | literaticat: | @EgmontGal Don’t be cruel, Elizabeth. #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | gregpincus: | @LaFabuliste It’s not a “vs.” topic. It’s what defines the differences… and should we care? #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | planetalvina: | @RebeccAgent Sorry, had to step away for a bit…but, uh, yes! I agree with what you’re saying! #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | KellyDHouse: | ‘Night all. I’ll catch the rest via transcript. #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | EMKokie: | @Mike_Mullin Agree. Books serve that purpose. They are about exploring issues kids are facing, in honest and organic ways. #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | hatbooks: | @elissacruz yes, Newbery winners mostly MG but now often marketed in broader category of YA #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | kelleemoye: | RT @LaFabuliste: Yes. The thing I like most about children’s/ya is it’s ability to be both entertaining & GOOD at the same time #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | jennymckmoss: | RT @rj_anderson:I think 8-12 range is where kids are most likely to find bks theyll love & re-read for rest of their lives #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | EgmontUSA: | @EgmontGal @literaticat Actually when i checked my temp was low….I could go get the thermometer again. #kidlitchat |
| 1:57 am | kellybarnhill: | Agreed. RT @EgmontUSA But I’m not sure if I was a teen today that I would still be skipping… more of a YA adult mix #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | octoberdaniels: | #kidlitchat @readingvacation A million vampire books with a black cover and a random close-up of a girl’s neck or shoulders can’t be wrong!! |
| 1:58 am | EgmontGal: | Well, now that I’ve insulted @literaticat and argued a lot with @AdamSelzer and told an agent at lunch that he knew nothing… #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | DelilahSDawson: | I think the best way to know MG from YA is to read widely. I get MG at my used bookstore and YA for my Nook. #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | stacylwhitman: | @gregpincus I wonder, though, which kinds of MG we’re talking abt. BC some MG (funny, esp) sells by subverting gatekeepers #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | ChristieWild: | @EmilyJiang @literaticat Chance of ever doing MG vs. Chapter Books (not early readers)? #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | ReadingVacation: | Off to sleep. Good night. Thanks for including me. #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | LaFabuliste: | @gregpincus Ahh, righto. I think we should (care), but only to a point. #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | LauraHamor: | I wouldn’t underestimate mg kids, they seem to get what they want and if a book appeals to them the gatekeeper will get it! #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | literaticat: | @EmilyJiang I don’t understand – MG *versus* YA? Like, a battle royale? #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | octoberdaniels: | #kidlitchat Sorry for the re-post, had to correct the spelling error. Can get pretty nit-picky about that! |
| 1:58 am | amyknichols: | Was Savvy marketed as MG or YA? Curious. #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | AudryT: | Was reading TIGER EYES today, which reminded me of how vital information is to kids, and books can convey that information. #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | EgmontGal: | …I guess it’s time to go damage some children by continuing to edit this MG novel. I have not had a positive day!Better end it #kidlitchat |
| 1:58 am | literaticat: | @EgmontGal Which agent? DID he know nothing? #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | kellybarnhill: | @jennymckmoss @rj_anderson Teachers call it the “golden age of reading”. It’s a very particular moment in brain development. #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | EMKokie: | @hatbooks Which Newbery winners have been marketed as YA? I can’t think of any? #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | EgmontUSA: | @kimberlyjsmith Buyers, gatekeepers, readers. #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | LaFabuliste: | @literaticat You be YA. I’ll be MG. I attack first, with fart jokes and a pet dog! #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | delzey: | @amyknichols MG #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | planetalvina: | There are a lot of books that fall in the middle of MG/YA–one book we cataloged as MG, but B&N shelved in YA. #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | KateMessner: | @ReadingVacation Night – thanks for sharing your thoughts! #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | Brent_Watson41: | @kimberlyjsmith I don’t know. I teach eighth grade and see most of my students gravitate towards smaller books. #LazyBastards #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | RebeccAgent: | @literaticat I think it unintentionally has become YA v MG #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | NoraMacFarlane: | @Mike_Mullin I’m not saying they cant EVER read YA. That’s silly. But 9 and 10 year olds are not always ready for the content. #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | stacylwhitman: | I read a lot slower than you all type! I’m 15 mins behind in this chat. #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | amyknichols: | @delzey That’s what I thought. Thank you. #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | planetalvina: | Books set in Middle School tend to straddle both MG/YA. #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | delzey: | @EMKokie isn’t that why they created the Prinz? #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | EgmontGal: | @literaticat Oh God, it just burst out of me.Not my best moment.I tried to back peddle like mad all thru lunch but he remembered #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | thunderchikin: | @amyknichols SAVVY was MG. #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | kellybarnhill: | @amyknichols Around here it was shelved with the MG books. #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | LauraRenegar: | Missed most of #kidlitchat because of tuck in. Thanks, @gregpincus , for the making the transcripts available. |
| 1:59 am | rj_anderson: | @EMKokie HERO AND THE CROWN was marketed as adult when I read it…! #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | Mike_Mullin: | @stacylwhitman @gregpincus Yes, & a lot of MG humor is at the expense of gatekeepers. Authenticity sells, brave pubs. take note. #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | ShellyPicarella: | @EMKokie you can’t claim the open minded card and be close minded at the same time- the difference is sex for kids- or feelings? #kidlitchat |
| 1:59 am | LaFabuliste: | @EMKokie Maaaaaybe GRAVEYARD BOOK? But Gaiman’s following is so 15-30, and they’ll read his grocery list, I’m sure. #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | MyraMcEntire: | I read middle grade books to my son and we discuss them.So in a way they’re children’s books, too. Strong memories/connections. #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | PaulWHankins: | I like this discussion. For me, it’s about “prescribed” vs. “described” choices. Do we inform within families what/why we read. #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | amithaknight: | RT @planetalvina: There are a lot of books that fall in the middle of MG/YA–one book we cataloged as MG, but B&N shelved in YA. #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | kellyhashway: | That’s it for me. Thanks for a great chat. #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | kelleemoye: | @susanjsteward At least according to MG boys- yes #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | literaticat: | @LaFabuliste I strike back, with leathery winged demon and smoking-hot bad boy on motorcycle! #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | susanjsteward: | @planetalvina Those are my favorite kind. #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | Mike_Mullin: | @NoraMacFarlane Try giving a YA book to a kid who’s not ready for it. They put it down. #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | adamselzer: | My first one got shelved in MG some places, YA others. Then again, maybe that’s part of why it’s out of print now! #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | hatbooks: | @EMKokie I see a trend of calling everything for ages 12 and up YA #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | elissacruz: | @amyknichols Savvy is MG imo, but Ingrid said they marketed it at both MG and YA. #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | jennymckmoss: | Q for writers: Do you have audience in mind, thinking, This will be MG or will be YA or do you just find the voice & write? #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | junegoodwin: | @EgmontGal LOL…LOL…Yeah. Go damage them…LOL…Now! #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | EmilyJiang: | @Mike_Mullin @EMKokie Mike, you just described my childhood, traveling through time and space by being lost in a book. #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | PaulWHankins: | RT @MyraMcEntire: I read middle grade books to my son and we discuss them.So in a way they’re children’s books, too. Strong memories/connections. #kidlitchat |
| 2:00 am | EgmontGal: | So authors, remember, if you suffer thru a rejection, we all get it.”Life’s a struggle and a good spy gets out there and fights” #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | NoraMacFarlane: | @beingcrys Again. My tweet said YOUNG children reading YA. 9 and 10 year olds are not always ready for the content. #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | sherryberrett: | @LaFabuliste but it’s still in the MG section of bookstores. #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | LiaKeyes: | @MyraMcEntire Good for you! Now, THAT’s parenting. Spending time, building memories that re-reading those books will bring back. #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | dawnmetcalf: | @MyraMcEntire I am reading The House At Pooh Corner with my daughter, one story each night. These are precious times. #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | LaFabuliste: | @literaticat Ah ha! But I have a meaningful relationship with a teacher or other adult figure! And a secret quirky talent! #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | EstherBernstein: | RT @EgmontUSA: Do 8 yos care that they’re reading YA? No. Do 16 yos care that they’re reading MG? Maybe a little more. #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | amyknichols: | @kellybarnhill @thunderchikin @elissacruz Interesting. Thanks. #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | rj_anderson: | @jennymckmoss I wrote my 1st for adults. Slowly became convinced it was “really” YA. Sold it as MG. Who knew? #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | literaticat: | @planetalvina I am actually kind of obsessed with this middle-school not-YA/not-MG ‘tween’ area. #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | EMKokie: | @hatbooks I’m not seeing that at all – which books? I know YALSA wants it, but they seem to be the only ones… #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | kellybarnhill: | @stacylwhitman True! Think of Goosebumps’ success- sheer kid vs. parent cat and mouse games. Subversion as marketing tool. #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | amithaknight: | i once heard that a good way to win an ALA award was to have a librarian in your book. true for both MG and YA or just MG? #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | jennymckmoss: | RT @kellybarnhill: Teachers call it the “golden age of reading”. Its a very particular moment in brain development. #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | sherryberrett: | @jennymckmoss My character is 17 so that is her voice, but the issues, which are 17 are what make it YA, not my intent. #kidlitchat |
| 2:01 am | coffeelvnmom: | @adamselzer Or coffee shop! Ha ha! #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | deegarretson: | @jennymckmoss I have to work at sticking with an MG voice. It’s very easy to slip over the line, editing constantly #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | Brent_Watson41: | @MyraMcEntire So important for parents to read to their kids. I poll my students. So few have actually been read to. #Sad #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | mike_jung: | @jennymckmoss I just started writing & discovered my voice was MG. I suspected it, but it took actual writing to know for sure. #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | amithaknight: | RT @rj_anderson: @jennymckmoss I wrote my 1st for adults. Slowly became convinced it was “really” YA. Sold it as MG. Who knew? #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | RebeccAgent: | @planetalvina important point! sometimes not author, agent, or pub that classifies. B&N or other big account decides YA or MG #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | overdunne: | @jennymckmoss my audience was tweens I think…maybe that’s why I’m still querying. Can’t decide #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | AudryT: | @PaulWHankins My parents thought they knew what I was “ready” for. I was three reading levels ahead of what they “knew.” #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | jennymckmoss: | @rj_anderson I don’t think I knew you wrote it for adults initially. Interesting. #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | EMKokie: | @EmilyJiang LOL – mine too! I was experiencing life through story – and saving myself some real life heartache. #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | janflora: | #kidlitchat is moving so fast with th ehot MG v. YA topic. Cannot even catch up #veryinteresting |
| 2:02 am | LaFabuliste: | When I was in MS, I had a parent with addiction, bestie had a dead mom, and other one had an abortion. What would that sell as? #kidlitchat |
| 2:02 am | kimberlyjsmith: | RT @hatbooks: @EMKokie I see a trend of calling everything for ages 12 and up YA #kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | PaulWHankins: | Essential dialogue regarding choice. Conversations stop with “I said so.” It can begin with “I read” though. #KidLitChat |
| 2:03 am | beingcrys: | @NoraMacFarlane Can you really see a 9 or 10 yo reading and finishing a book with profanity and sex in it? They won’t. #kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | hpinski: | I really, really have to go write now. GREAT chat, hard to pull away… #kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | gracefuldoe: | @jennymckmoss I wrote my current #wip with the idea it would be YA, but afterwards decided the voice was more MG #kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | SinstralPride: | @rj_anderson I agree! I found over half of my all-time favorite books between about 7-13. #kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | TaliaVance: | @jennymckmoss I consciously write YA, but my writing is very hormone driven…#kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | DelilahSDawson: | In between #kidlitchat and #gno, I finished V5 of the YA geek girl zombiepocalypse book. Now off to betas! |
| 2:03 am | MyraMcEntire: | I can also filter what he’s not ready for, or explain it as it comes up. Just goes back to MG being timeless. #kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | jackiedolamore: | I am lurking with interest… I’ve been knocking around a couple MG ideas. #kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | connectingwomen: | @DelilahSDawson Hmmm…all these chat parties, what is #kidlitchat about? #gno |
| 2:03 am | dawnmetcalf: | RT @RebeccAgent: @literaticat I think it unintentionally has become YA v MG #kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | PaulWHankins: | RT @EgmontUSA: Do 8 yos care that they’re reading YA? No. Do 16 yos care that they’re reading MG? Maybe a little more. #kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | kimberlyjsmith: | @jennymckmoss I write for what I think my kids would like. Right now that means MG and just edging into YA #kidlitchat |
| 2:03 am | AudryT: | What did you read when you were 12? 10? MG? YA? The adult sections? I was in adult sections by 10. The rest of you? *curious* #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | WriterRoss: | Quibble: who can say when reader is ready 4 “something”? I’m never ready for a mouse and yet, bam, they keep showing up in pbs! #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | kevinmichsmith: | @planetalvina That makes me wonder if my book falls into this category, though I’m writing it as MG. #chinscratch #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | kelleemoye: | Yes, MG and YA have started to overlap in middle school… #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | LiaKeyes: | YA is not just about profanity and sex and violence – it’s about perspective and voice and sophistication of language, too. #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | mike_jung: | Err, hi everyone! I always feel weird saying hi during a tweetchat… #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | 2911ENT: | @rj_anderson Shows human themes transcend age! #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | Brent_Watson41: | @planetalvina As a middle school teacher, I totally agree. Such a strange age. One example: Girls tower over the boys. #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | EmilyJiang: | @ChristieWild @literaticat “vs.” = “the differences between” & there was some chapter book discussion earlier… #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | jafhedlund: | Thanks for a great chall all – need to put kiddos to bed. #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | EMKokie: | @ShellyPicarella When someone says YA books should preach “hands” only & including sex=porn, yeah, I’m calling that out. Redflag #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | jennymckmoss: | @kimberlyjsmith I think I did this w/o realizing it. #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | emilytastic: | On the sex & violence front: kids are good at self-censoring. They’ll skip pages or put down a book if it’s too much for them. #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | jackiedolamore: | (the big thing is, can I write a book that doesn’t have a love story? I don’t know…) #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | literaticat: | @LaFabuliste Oh no! Not even my wise-cracking, guyliner-wearing best friend can counter the Wise Teacher move! #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | PaulWHankins: | @EgmontUSA Though Tom Angleberger (@OrigamiYoda) had baseball and tennis players folding origami Yodas this morning in 210. #kidlitchat |
| 2:04 am | RebeccAgent: | what we read when we were younger is kind of irrelevant. When I was in HS there basically wasn’t the option of YA #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | Mike_Mullin: | RT @beingcrys: @NoraMacFarlane Can you really see a 9 or 10 yo reading and finishing a book with profanity and sex in it? They won’t. #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | janflora: | RT @RebeccAgent: a MG book needs to appeal to multiple avenues (librarians, parents, teachers, and kids themselves) to sell big #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | amyknichols: | @AudryT I started reading some adult books around age ten. #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | susanjsteward: | @WriterRoss I haven’t been ready to read about sex yet! Now where did these children come from? #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | LaFabuliste: | @WriterRoss Exactly. Best thing to do is to trust readers. And to read with them, ready to act as a wise guide. #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | kellybarnhill: | @beingcrys Either that or they gloss over it. My daughter read Wicked (secretly), and had NO IDEA there was a sex scene. #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | PattyJMurphy: | @Egmontgal: Hope tomorrow is better + @EgmontUSA: hope you are feeling better, soon! #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | NoraMacFarlane: | @Mike_Mullin Veteran gifted ed lit teacher. Not talking banning books. Talking age-appropriateness and parent responsibility. #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | bonnieadamson: | Chat was too fast for my new keyboard and tiny screen–loved the part I caught, though. Thanks, everyone! #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | hapenn: | #kidlitchat So does that mean a bit of cursing is okay/starting to become okay in upper MG? |
| 2:05 am | rj_anderson: | @AudryT I leapfrogged between Lloyd Alexander and Stephen R. Donaldson at 12. Read LotR at 8. #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | EgmontUSA: | @PaulWHankins That is thoroughly awesome! Why was I not invited? #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | KateMessner: | @jackiedolamore You can have a love story in MG – it just needs to be sweet & relatively innocent. #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | jackiedolamore: | @AudryT when I was 12 I loved fantasy novels, Xanth books, comic…but…also still middle grade. #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | overdunne: | @AudryT totally adult by 10. I think I was into throbbing loins *blushes* by then. My sex ed came from books. #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | leewind: | @gregpincus @EMKokie Thanks for the MT Anderson interview shout out! http://bit.ly/aRYGe4 #kidlitchat |
| 2:05 am | abbymumford: | I heard YA is about discovering yourself while MG is about figuring how you fit into your family/community. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | rj_anderson: | @jackiedolamore That’s why fantasy is good. You can still write a love story for MG readers that way.  #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | PinkLockerMom: | RT @kelleemoye: MG (Middle school especially) is so important because it is really where the love of reading is made or broken. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | EgmontUSA: | @PattyJMurphy Thanks, Patty. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | kellybarnhill: | @beingcrys Similarly, when I taught The French Lieutentant’s Woman to sophomores, they just missed the sex scene, #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | emilytastic: | @EMKokie @ShellyPicarella What does “hands only” even mean? Anyway, stories for teens should be authentic. Room for lots of YA. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | kimberlyjsmith: | Thanks for all the great “chat” — night all. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | mike_jung: | @jackiedolamore I think part of the reason I skew toward MG is that I don’t feel compelled to write love stories. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | Brent_Watson41: | @emilytastic Really? You think? I don’t see that at all. They skip TO the sex and violence…not skip past it. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | adamselzer: | I wonder if I could pull off a really passionate mg romance… #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | amyknichols: | My kid asked me what my favorite grade in school was. I told her 5th. That’s when I discovered many of my favorite books. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | dawnmetcalf: | @LiaKeyes I think YA is also about that time in your life where you’re not an adult, but discovering what kind of adult to be. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | literaticat: | @jackiedolamore OMG I was OBSESSED with Xanth when I was 12. OBSESSED. (Also Incarnations of Immortality) #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | NoraMacFarlane: | @beingcrys Yes. I have students whose parents allow it. It’s their choice. It wouldn’t be my choice as a parent. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | PuddleReader: | @AudryT I read a TOTAL mix of all three from ages 10-16. Then I ran out of time to free read from mid-soph yr thru college haha #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | WendyMartinArt: | RT @mike_jung: @jackiedolamore I think part of the reason I skew toward MG is that I don’t feel compelled to write love stories. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | AvidBookshop: | @AudryT At 10, I was reading books for middle schoolers. By 12 I was reading YA (& still reading middle school books in secret). #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | rj_anderson: | When I was in Grade Six (1980), the most popular book in my class? FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC. Yikes! #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | janflora: | I do! RT @LiaKeyes: @NoraMacFarlane Wish parents didn’t veto as much…they should read the book alongside the child & discuss! #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | kelleemoye: | @EMKokie The Giver is YA and it is a Newbery. I’m sure there are others. #kidlitchat |
| 2:06 am | jennymckmoss: | @sherryberrett @mike_jung @gracefuldoe @TaliaVance Sounds like a lot of writers define their work (in terms of YA & MG) by voice #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | jackiedolamore: | @rj_anderson that’s true. I thought Knife/Fairy Rebels was terribly romantic. Also Jessica Day George’s books are v. sweet. #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | Mike_Mullin: | @RebeccAgent Lots of kids I know, particularly boys, are still skipping from MG to adult. #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | thehidingspot: | I hope not. RT @jackiedolamore: (the big thing is, can I write a book that doesn’t have a love story? I don’t know…) #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | coffeelvnmom: | @AudryT I read The Baby Sitters Club at that age. (And most of my friends didn’t read at all.) So FAR from adult. #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | dawnmetcalf: | Ouch! RT @Mike_Jung @jackiedolamore I think pt of the reason I skew to MG is that I don’t feel compelled to write love stories. #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | kellybarnhill: | @susanjsteward That stork hanging around your bedroom #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | adamselzer: | @literaticat same here on Incarnations. Big time. #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | hatbooks: | @EMKokie YALSA influence re. YA for ages 12-18 significant, no? #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | LiaKeyes: | @amithaknight Why is YA narrow? ‘Cos so much of it is Supernatural Romance, which I love, but it’s not enough. More variety plz! #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | LaFabuliste: | @adamselzer If Lyra and Will are MG, they totally did. #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | overdunne: | Maybe that’s why I censor my kids books? I want them to get sex ed from me. AND my parents didn’t care… #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | rj_anderson: | @jackiedolamore Thank you, I tried! I remember wishing for more romance (not sex, but kissing) in books when I was that age. #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | sherryberrett: | @jennymckmoss but I think really the issues are a bigger part. The way they were handled was just YA to me. #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | EgmontUSA: | @kelleemoye But the Newbery rules are broader than “just middle grade.” That’s not how the award is defined. #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | Mike_Mullin: | @kelleemoye @EMKokie THE GIVER is commonly read in 5th and 6th grade classrooms around here. #kidlitchat |
| 2:07 am | WriterRoss: | @LaFabuliste @susanjsteward Just say it with me: Books don’t scare me. {} #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | KateMessner: | @jackiedolamore I think Julie Berry’s books fall into that romantic upper-MG fantasy category too. #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | jackiedolamore: | @literaticat @adamselzer I liked Incarnations too #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | EMKokie: | @kimberlyjsmith Newbery goes through age 14, though. So, I see that part. Some crossover. #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | Brent_Watson41: | @rj_anderson One of the most popular books in my eighth grade class is A CHILD CALLED IT. #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | cjomololu: | @Mike_Mullin @RebeccAgent My 13 yo son is solidly into Stephen King. Some YA- David Levithan, John Green, Josh Berk, etc. #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | MyraMcEntire: | I just read SELLING HOPE by @ktubb, and it is MG (and AMAZING) but would’ve worked as YA, too. Solid story = goes anywhere. #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | LiaKeyes: | @Mike_Mullin The sad part about boys skipping from MG to adult is that YA is a genre of hope, and adult lit is often jaded. #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | MLStoughton: | Hopped on twitter at the right time. #kidlitchat Just today I started writing new story, and couldn’t decide what way to go with it -YA/MG? |
| 2:08 am | EmilyJiang: | @amithaknight Next big ALA winner = About a girl who wants to become a librarian & foils the censorship people. #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | ChristineRnold: | Does all YA need to be dark and gritty? It just seems like such a trend to have a pessimistic MC. Is it a trend or a rule? #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | emilytastic: | @Brent_Watson41 Every kid is different. But plenty of kids totally pass over sexy/violent scenes because they don’t like them. #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | LaFabuliste: | @LiaKeyes I agree re: narrow focus. But hopefully the $ from the paranormals will open doors for other things. #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | PuddleReader: | @AudryT That said, I don’t recall being aware of a YA genre until after I was being a teen. only looking back that I diagnose #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | gracefuldoe: | @Mike_Jung @jackiedolamore Me too (re: not compelled to write love stories) #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | PaulWHankins: | @AudryT My wife read her mother’s discarded V. C. Andrews books. I am not sure what influences this had on her later (wink). #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | ShellyPicarella: | @EMKokie If you are going to write FOR kids/YA- I say dont write a thing your lawyer would advise you not say to a kid alone.LOL #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | jackiedolamore: | @thehidingspot haha! well, don’t worry, whatever else I might write I’ll still be writing a lot of love stories… #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | rj_anderson: | I read the part in WRINKLE IN TIME where Calvin kisses Meg a whole bunch of times as a tween. Awkward & short as it is. #kidlitchat |
| 2:08 am | jennymckmoss: | You’re such a romantic RT @jackiedolamore: the big thing is, can I write a book that doesnt have a love story? I dont know… #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | RebeccAgent: | when did I say that preteens and teens of today aren’t reading adult? #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | cindysku: | RT @LiaKeyes: @Mike_Mullin The sad part about boys skipping from MG to adult is that YA is a genre of hope, and adult lit is often jaded. #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | ReadingItAll: | agree RT @kelleemoye: MG (Middle school especially) is so important – it is really where the love of reading is made or broken. #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | planetalvina: | @ChristineRnold There’s a ton of light and joyful YA out there! But the gritty stuff gets more attention. #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | paulgreci: | l was in and out of #kidlitchat tonight. Great discussion. Thanks everyone |
| 2:09 am | EMKokie: | @ShellyPicarella Are you a lawyer? I am. : ) #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | thehidingspot: | @jackiedolamore Phew! #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | beingcrys: | @kellybarnhill One of mine would skip it, one would read it. Just depends on kid. But why stop them, when you can discuss it? #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | literaticat: | (I am actually possibly being driven insane by this chat. ARGH SO MANY MISUNDERSTANDINGS. Can’t fix the internet, Jennifer.) #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | EgmontUSA: | @ShellyPicarella But waht if your lawyer is a prude. . . . #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | mike_jung: | @dawnmetcalf @jackiedolamore Well, I don’t mean writing love stories is BAD in any way. It just doesn’t have its hooks in me. #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | LiaKeyes: | @LaFabuliste Oh, absolutely. But I think YA has enough respect re $ now to be more experimental. #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | jacquieink: | RT @LaurelSnyder: I think MG characters mostly engage in the external world/adventures/understanding others. YA characters think about themselves. #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | RebeccAgent: | I didn’t. I said when I was in HS I didn’t have the option of YA like today’s teens. #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | AudryT: | @PuddleReader They had a section labeled “Young Adult” at my local library. It was filled with Sweet Valley High so I skipped it #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | sherryberrett: | @rj_anderson I did something similar with NAncy Drew and Ned Nickerson. #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | LaFabuliste: | @literaticat Especially not in 140 characters or less #kidlitchat |
| 2:09 am | Brent_Watson41: | @emilytastic In my classroom, one kid was reading FADE by Lisa McMann. They passed page 101 around several times. #SexScene #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | rj_anderson: | @Brent_Watson41 I think kids are naturally drawn to the sensational and the grotesque. #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | ShellyPicarella: | @EMKokie you can write without details- even twilight skipped details- wanting to write a scene for a child to read = REDFLAG #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | EMKokie: | @ShellyPicarella And well read in YA ; ) So…I think we can probably at this point agree to disagree. #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | RebeccAgent: | Reading habits of tween & teens have changed as the market has changed in the last 15-20 yrs. Undeniable. #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | delzey: | everything’s flying so fast ~ who said YA is a genre of hope? #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | PuddleReader: | @AudryT HA that’s hysterical #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | jackiedolamore: | @mike_jung I get what you’re saying, Mike. #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | dawnmetcalf: | @Mike_Jung @jackiedolamore But you make it sound like /all/ YA is love stories, which isn’t true (although it’s the majority…) #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | EmilyEWeaver: | @literaticat don’t underestimate the tween who’ll take you both i’ve got braces, a phone and I’m secretly a princess.. watch out #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | LiaKeyes: | RT @dawnmetcalf: @LiaKeyes I think YA is also about that time in your life where you’re not an adult, but discovering what kind of adult to be. #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | jennymckmoss: | @rj_anderson @jackiedolamore I’m all for more kissing. #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | RoseanneSchmidt: | @ChristineRnold Definately not a rule… YA is the vocabulary level not the genre, technically. #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | EgmontUSA: | RT @RebeccAgent: Reading habits of tween & teens have changed as the market has changed in the last 15-20 yrs. Undeniable. #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | Georgia_McBride: | RT @RebeccAgent: @planetalvina sometimes not author, agent, or pub that classifies. B&N or other big account decides YA or MG #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | delzey: | if YA is a genre of hope, what does that make everything else? #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | ShellyPicarella: | @EgmontUSA LMAO….get a new lawyer #kidlitchat |
| 2:10 am | Gwenda: | RT @rj_anderson: When I was in Grade Six (1980), the most popular book in my class? FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC. Yikes! #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | ReadingItAll: | Check the teen groups on GoodReads Reality is still cool! RT@planetalvina: ton of light joyful YA! gritty stuff gets attention. #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | amyknichols: | @literaticat Can you say more about the misunderstandings for those of us who are trying to understand? Please? #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | AudryT: | I love the adventurous side of MG. Kids going out on their own, having the most amazing experience of their lives, saving worlds #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | LiaKeyes: | @delzey Me, do you agree? (YA as genre of hope) #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | jackiedolamore: | @Mike_Jung @dawnmetcalf well, most of the big $$ in YA goes to love stories. in MG, that isn’t the case. #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | ifollowthenight: | @literaticat I would like to hear what the biggest misunderstandings or misconceptions you are finding in this chat. #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | PuddleReader: | Alright I really need to start grading student midterms. Goodnight all! #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | kelleemoye: | @Mike_Mullin The Giver is normally for 12+ and is read in middle school b/c of the euthanasia and sex dreams… #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | LaFabuliste: | When I was a teen, crying was a hobby. Titanic, Moulin Rouge, Amber Spyglass, Holocaust stories. I wanted to be *moved*. Deeply. #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | EMKokie: | @ShellyPicarella Level of detail I agree must be age appropriate – but can include sexual scenes in age appropriate ways. #kidlitchat |
| 2:11 am | dawnmetcalf: | Agree: Unfortunate Events! RT @rj_anderson @Brent_Watson41 I think kids are naturally drawn to the sensational & the grotesque. #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | LindsJacks: | Sorry I’m late to this, but I’m a bit confused by the YA vs MG thing. What was Sweet Valley Twins? That’s what I used to read. #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | gregpincus: | Thanks, y’all, for a rollicking #kidlitchat. I have to go, but will get the transcript up sooooooon. |
| 2:12 am | planetalvina: | @delzey Genres of despair. #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | susanjsteward: | @RebeccAgent Surely there was at least Paul Zindel. About the only “teen” reading I ever did. #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | LaFabuliste: | @delzey Adult books aren’t really known for their fuzzies, but rather their grim reality. #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | dawnmetcalf: | @delzey …the Genre of Angst? #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | emilytastic: | Y’all YA and MG aren’t genres, they’re points of view. Just like “adult” isn’t a genre. There are MANY genres within YA & MG. #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | ShellyPicarella: | @EMKokie nope…just a decent parent.. #kidlitchat agreed to disagree. 100% |
| 2:12 am | Georgia_McBride: | @MyraMcEntire Yes. Lots of parents stop reading to their kids once they are capable of reading on their own. #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | hatbooks: | RT @LiaKeyes The sad part about boys skipping from MG to adult is that YA is a genre of hope, and adult lit is often jaded. #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | adamselzer: | Age appropriate, shmage appropriate. Let’s do a Candide picture book! #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | EmilyJiang: | @literaticat You can’t fix the internet, but can the internet fix you? #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | elissacruz: | MG is about finding your place in your family, your friends, your team. YA is about finding your place in the world. #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | sherryberrett: | @LindsJacks I’d say YA at the time, though it may be considered MG now. #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | leewind: | @LiaKeyes I like what you said about YA being a “genre of hope.” Not necc. happy endings, but at least hopeful… #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | EgmontUSA: | I want to be clear the at middle grade and middle school are not the same thing! Middle Grade 8-12. Middle school 11-13ish #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | rj_anderson: | @adamselzer *sporfles* #kidlitchat |
| 2:12 am | dawnmetcalf: | @LaFabuliste Okay, NOW I feel old. #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | emilytastic: | @adamselzer I’m into it! #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | delzey: | @LiaKeyes uh, no. i don’t think hope is the onloy thing a YA audience wants or needs, as a general rule #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | planetalvina: | @LaFabuliste I’ve always loved crying over books. Still do. I like crying from happiness as well as sadness, though!! #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | ReadingItAll: | RT @elissacruz: MG is about finding your place in your family, your friends. YA is about finding your place in the world. #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | literaticat: | (I am hiding underneath my desk rocking back and forth.) #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | EgmontUSA: | I’d say that most middle school readers are reading YA. #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | chazleydotson: | RT @adamselzer: Age appropriate, shmage appropriate. Let’s do a Candide picture book! #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | delzey: | *only #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | LaFabuliste: | @dawnmetcalf Pssssh. Didn’t you just turn 27 or something? #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | EmilyJiang: | @LaurelSnyder I like your external/internal differentiation between MG & MG – good food for thought. #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | EisleyJacobs: | My kids are 11, 9 and 7 and I still read to them. We share books often! Jeff Stone’s Five Ancestors Series right now. #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | jennymckmoss: | @gregpincus Thanks, Greg. Great topic. #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | 2911ENT: | @hapenn Many books in my 5th grade class include some curse words. I just teach my students options for how to handle this #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | leewind: | RT @EgmontUSA: middle grade and middle school are not the same thing! Middle Grade 8-12. Middle school 11-13ish #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | jackiedolamore: | Generally I just like books that have a certain timeless “any age” feel. #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | susanjsteward: | @elissacruz See, I have to disagree with that. The MG I love is about finding your way in the world, too, in a way. #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | EgmontUSA: | @literaticat Nono! Get Moxie. She’ll help. #kidlitchat |
| 2:13 am | kelleemoye: | @LindsJacks SVTwins is MG, SVHigh is YA #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | PattyJMurphy: | @LaFabuliste: Yes, children’s books are more about hope. We are in the hope business:) #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | ChristineRnold: | @planetalvina oh I know it exists, just seems that there’s less now (maybe that’s just me and I haven’t been reading enough) #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | LindsJacks: | @sherryberrett I might be confused because I’ve never heard of MG somehow. And we don’t have middle schools here. #inCanada #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | LiaKeyes: | @delzey In YA, protagonists face bogeymen, the supernatural, etc., but they come up on top in the end. Not so with adult. #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | KateMessner: | @EgmontUSA My 7th graders are about half & half YA/MG right now. By April, they will lean more YA. #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | dawnmetcalf: | @Georgia_McBride @MyraMcEntire Shouldn’t tho. This is a time you can read to each other. Kids are only kids once. Savor it! #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | literaticat: | @planetalvina @lafabuliste – ME TOO! I know a book is terrific when it makes me cry, not ness from sadness, just from GOODNESS. #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | jolantru: | Drat! I missed #kidlitchat… again. |
| 2:14 am | adamselzer: | And while we’re at it, Entrails of the Fourth Grade Nothing! #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | planetalvina: | Question–I got lectured by having characters say “freaking” in a MG book. Is that language okay or not okay for MG? #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | jennymckmoss: | @literaticat Come out, Jennifer. What is wrong? #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | ShellyPicarella: | @literaticat stop hiding! hahaha. Come on out from there! #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | sherryberrett: | @2911ENT When you read aloud do you change or skip them? #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | hatbooks: | RT @leewind: RT @EgmontUSA: middle grade and middle school are not the same thing! Middle Grade 8-12. Middle school 11-13ish #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | ReadingItAll: | Mostly because they don’t know about the great MG stuff RT @EgmontUSA: Id say that most middle school readers are reading YA. #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | emilytastic: | @literaticat I totally missed your apparent nervy b! LOVE! #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | cindysku: | @EgmontUSA In middle school I read Ya and upper mg #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | LindsJacks: | @kelleemoye OOhhhh that makes sense. Thanks! #kidlitchat #yavsmg |
| 2:14 am | Chumplet: | @literaticat I can’t keep up with this one. #kidlitchat |
| 2:14 am | dawnmetcalf: | @LaFabuliste I and all my gray hairs love you. #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | EmilyJiang: | @delzey I wouldn’t say YA means hopeful. That’s more a MG ending. #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | LaFabuliste: | @planetalvina My mom would say so. 11 year old me would tssk and roll her eyes at you. #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | S_M_Johnston: | The closest thing I had to YA as a teen was Sweet Valley High. I read a lot of adult as a teen. Now I read YA predominantly #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | sherryberrett: | @LindsJacks MG is middle grade. I think it’s ages 8-12 #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | LiaKeyes: | @delzey So YA is about knowing the world can be dark, yet finding a way to prevail. Teens need to feel that they can. #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | adamselzer: | @planetalvina one can get a lecture for pretty much anything. Ignore it. #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | AudryT: | I love that manga never got broken into age categories in the U.S., b/c kids could decide what they were ready for themselves. #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | girlygirlugh: | @cakeblast #Giveaway #kidlitchat #kidlit Win the HardCover Children?s Book, Who Said Coo? http://bit.ly/auB213 |
| 2:15 am | djolder: | @planetalvina freaking’s not a swear in my book #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | Cinnamon_Quill: | *sneaks in* >.> #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | emilytastic: | @planetalvina I’d say “freaking” is okay for MG that focusses on middle school and social situations, especially upper MG. #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | BloggersBooks: | @Georgia_McBride @MyraMcEntire My mom and I read together until I was 8&she was pregnant. Read first 4 Harry Potters together. #kidlitchat |
| 2:15 am | cjomololu: | I love gritty, issuey (even romantic)YA because it lets kids ‘experience’ things in fiction they’re not ready for in real life. #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | junegoodwin: | @planetalvina Who complained about that? That’s a common word kids say and it’s not profanity. #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | adamselzer: | Isn’t robbing children of their innocence the whole reason I got into this business? #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | janflora: | RT @LiaKeyes: YA is not just about profanity and sex and violence – it’s about perspective and voice and sophistication of language, too. #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | elissacruz: | @susanjsteward Yes, in a way. But it’s still a smaller, more immediate world, I think. #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | EgmontUSA: | @planetalvina I say that’s okay-but I had to explain to an author that “sucks” could be deemed questionable. What do I know? #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | kellybarnhill: | @beingcrys Exactly. I worry way more about books being upsetting. She had nightmares for weeks after reading The Golden Compass. #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | LaFabuliste: | @dawnmetcalf And should I read your book now as a ms or should I wait for the arc? I’m itching to send it to printer, but asking #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | jackiedolamore: | @AudryT Yeah, I think that’s why I liked indie comics as a kid too (even though manga came midway through)… #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | kelleemoye: | @LindsJacks You have junior high? Same thing really. Middle grade is just the step between juvenile and teen fiction. #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | Cinnamon_Quill: | @BloggersBooks I was 10 when I started the HP books. I had to read them alone and then convince my parents to read them. #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | delzey: | @LiaKeyes i don’t know why this bothers me so much, but i think that thinking sells teens short. #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | EmilyJiang: | @LindsJacks Sweet Valley Twins would be MG, while Sweet Valley High would be YA. #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | LiaKeyes: | ROFL! RT @adamselzer: Isnt robbing children of their innocence the whole reason I got into this business? #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | planetalvina: | @junegoodwin A teacher who said he couldn’t assign it to his students because he would get complaints from parents. #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | AudryT: | Knowing you, yes. RT @adamselzer: Isnt robbing children of their innocence the whole reason I got into this business? #kidlitchat |
| 2:16 am | literaticat: | LOL! RT @adamselzer Isn’t robbing children of their innocence the whole reason I got into this business? #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | RoseanneSchmidt: | @junegoodwin @planetalvina technically it’s a substitution for a profane word. #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | kelleemoye: | Ditto. Maybe more MG… RT @KateMessner: My 7th graders are about half & half YA/MG right now. By April, they will lean more YA. #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | emilytastic: | @cjomololu Agreed. I keep saying this: kids are smart, they KNOW what they’re ready for. I totally hid scary books from myself. #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | ChristineRnold: | @RoseanneSchmidt Not sure I agree with that. I don’t write down to teens. I expect they know vocab or at least how to look it up #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | WriterRoss: | @planetalvina “Freaking” must be the Word of the Week! (p.s Snooki was on Letter man last night!) #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | kellybarnhill: | @adamselzer Me too! I’ve been poisoning the Youth of America for YEARS #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | susanjsteward: | @elissacruz Not to me. t’s actually MORE about the big world by dealing with the small one. To me, YA = more insular. #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | EgmontUSA: | @Readingitall Maybe, but pop culture is older and a lot of middle grade feels “babyish” to them. (They’re SO wrong!) #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | HeatherMcCorkle: | @LiaKeyes I couldn’t agree more. #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | RoseanneSchmidt: | RT @adamselzer: Isn’t robbing children of their innocence the whole reason I got into this business? #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | EMKokie: | @planetalvina I’ve heard that since it’s a known replacement for the obvious, it will not fly in the classroom. #kidlitchat |
| 2:17 am | Mike_Mullin: | @adamselzer LOL, like you could with a novel. #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | Brent_Watson41: | @KateMessner @planetalvina I love the word “freakin’.” Talk about authentic dialogue. #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | LiaKeyes: | @delzey Neither do I! I’m a HUGE advocate of encouraging teens to think. Don’t get me wrong. #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | adamselzer: | I wanted to introduce kids to the joys of swearing! Why, a well-timed swear can save the world – ask George Washington! #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | kelleemoye: | @planetalvina Just fine. Not vulgar at all… I’d just stay away from the real curse words in MG (or too many of them). #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | sherryberrett: | Do teachers still read aloud to students in Middle school and Junior high? Do they censure words and scenes? #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | chasingray: | @literaticat It’s reading comments like this one that reconfirm why sometimes, I just have to bail on #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | jackiedolamore: | Frankly any discussion of YA being about this or that in a broad sense kinda makes my head hurt. #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | Shelltex: | @planetalvina By 10-12 they all say freaking (and younger actually), so why not? It’s authentic dialogue for upper MG. #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | chazleydotson: | @cjomololu Yes! That’s what I loved about books for older age groups when I was a kid. Maybe part of my desire to grow up faster #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | ReadingItAll: | I think that a good MG could be read to small children and they would love the adventure w/o understanding relationships #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | LaFabuliste: | @EgmontUSA That is a really good point. Especially when my 5yo niece wants to be 17yo Hannah Montana. #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | AudryT: | @emilytastic I skimmed the stuff I found intimidating as a teen…like certain nekkid people scenes in flying dragon books… #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | beingcrys: | @kellybarnhill Sounds like me. All of mine are very sensitive, to odd things. But real life stuff? Bring it on. #kidlitchat |
| 2:18 am | adamselzer: | (though I had to take the exact quote out of Smart Aleck’s Guide – dancing around the swears is part of the joke in that one) #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | Cinnamon_Quill: | @sherryberrett When I was 10 or so the teacher read us To Kill a Mocking Bird and Huck Finn. No censoring. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | BloggersBooks: | @Cinnamon_Quill After the first four books, we both got our own copies of HP books so we could read at the same time. Loved it. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | emilytastic: | @Shelltex @planetalvina SEE! Authentic. I feel like a broken record sometimes, but authentic is the number one thing in kidlit. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | elissacruz: | @susanjsteward True. Maybe it’s more of an outward vs. inward take on the world. I dunno. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | kellybarnhill: | @planetalvina If “freaking” is okay in the classroom (even teachers say it) it sure as heck is okay in a book. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | planetalvina: | I’ve gotten some pushback for characters saying “Oh my god” in MG, too. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | dawnmetcalf: | @LaFabuliste I just got copyedits today! #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | Cinnamon_Quill: | @sherryberrett I think he did censor homosexual aspect of a play we read together as a class which bothers me though. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | TinaLynn_: | RT @adamselzer: Isn’t robbing children of their innocence the whole reason I got into this business? #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | Gwenda: | RT @adamselzer: I wanted to introduce kids to the joys of swearing! Why, a well-timed swear can save the world – ask George Washington! #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | emilytastic: | @AudryT Exactly. Or I just plain didn’t get it. I read so much Piers Anthony, and missed all the sex jokes. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | LiaKeyes: | RT @leewind: @LiaKeyes I like what you said about YA being a “genre of hope.” Not necc. happy endings, but at least hopeful… #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | kellybarnhill: | @planetalvina Next you’ll tell me I have to stay away from “heck”. Or “phooey”. Or “fiddlesticks”. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | emcguirestudio: | @sherryberrett My mom is a 6th grade teacher, usually reads The Witches aloud to her classes. The kids see it as a treat :] #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | janflora: | yep! read them 2 RT @rj_anderson: When I was in Grade Six (1980) the most popular book in my class? FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC. Yikes! #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | junegoodwin: | @RoseanneSchmidt True, but I hear it said in school all the time and no one bats an eye. It doesn’t even register. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | mike_jung: | @dawnmetcalf @jackiedolamore No, definitely not all YA – STARCROSSED, for example. Wonderful, low-romance YA. #kidlitchat |
| 2:19 am | the_familiars: | I’m catching up on interesting #kidlitchat about YA/MG. Sorry I missed it! |
| 2:19 am | BloggersBooks: | @Cinnamon_Quill She also read Twilight after taking me to see the movie for my 14 birthday. She’s good that way. #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | dawnmetcalf: | @adamselzer I loved how @realjohngreen got around swears in ABUNDANCE OF KATHERINES. Genius & authentic geekisms. #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | Cinnamon_Quill: | @AudryT I think I just skim read in general when I was younger. Didn’t have a very good attention span (except for HP) #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | LaFabuliste: | @dawnmetcalf So I should wait? I should, shouldn’t I? But I read the catalog copy and I don’t waaaaaannaaaaa #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | cindysku: | I think Ya is such a large group of books it is hard to pinpoint what all of ya is about #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | thereadingzone: | @kellybarnhill @planetalvina I have HSer who don’t hesitate to say the full F-word within teacher earshot. #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | RebeccAgent: | @planetalvina from clubs? in house? from an account? #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | kelleemoye: | RT @emilytastic: Agreed. I keep saying this: kids are smart, they KNOW what they’re ready for. #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | delzey: | my head’s swimming. i need to take some motrin and ponder this ‘hope’ thing in YA. see ya next week, all! #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | ReadingItAll: | TRUE! @adamselzer I loved how @realjohngreen got around swears in ABUNDANCE OF KATHERINES. Genius & authentic geekisms. #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | dawnmetcalf: | @Mike_Jung @jackiedolamore Thought DEMON’S LEXICON was another great one about brotherhood & family, not romance. #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | planetalvina: | I did edit one MG book where we left 1 “shit” in the book–but it was about verbal abuse and the au and I felt it was necessary. #kidlitchat |
| 2:20 am | adamselzer: | Washington’s use of the a-word while crossing the delaware cheered up a group of frozen, terrified soldiers. It won us the war! #kidlitchat |
| 2:21 am | kellybarnhill: | @PattyJMurphy @LaFabuliste Diana Wynne Jones wrote an essay on that very subject! Must track down…. #kidlitchat |
| 2:21 am | literaticat: | When I was 12, I loved MISTS OF AVALON. I didn’t get ANY of the orgy/sex scenes till I reread as grownup. (And there are LOTS). #kidlitchat |
| 2:21 am | planetalvina: | @RebeccAgent teachers and librarians. #kidlitchat |
| 2:21 am | Cinnamon_Quill: | @BloggersBooks My mum’s read the first 3 Twilight books. I had to read aloud to her to get her interested. #kidlitchat |
| 2:21 am | AudryT: | @Cinnamon_Quill Heck, I don’t have a very good attention span as an adult! #kidlitchat |
| 2:21 am | dawnmetcalf: | Yes. This. RT @emilytastic: Agreed. I keep saying this: kids are smart, they KNOW what they’re ready for. #kidlitchat |
| 2:21 am | ByAThreadAuthor: | RT @NoraMacFarlane Can U?see a 9 /10 yo reading?a book w/profanity & sex?? They won’t. #kidlitchat -My mom gave me PrettyMaidsAllinARow @11 |
| 2:21 am | rj_anderson: | @dawnmetcalf And yet… there’s plenty of kissing and attraction in DEMON’S LEXICON, too. #kidlitchat |
| 2:21 am | chazleydotson: | I think so long as we’re talking definitions, we should remember that we’re trying to externally group things that… #kidlitchat |
| 2:21 am | chazleydotson: | …weren’t meant to be grouped. These great books–the writers wrote them to tell the story, not to fit into a category. #kidlitchat |
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