Kidlitchat Transcript – October 13 (part 2)
Please click here to see part one of the transcript.
| 8:34 pm | _rachelsimon: | @sandyalonzo Neither did I! re: Red Balloon being a book #kidlitchat |
| 8:34 pm | DDHearn: | People can find different symbols, in books, some perhaps not even meant by the author. Reading is a two-way conversation. #kidlitchat |
| 8:34 pm | crissachappell: | @LoulieArt hence the scooby snacks… #kidlitchat |
| 8:34 pm | WriterRoss: | @DDHearn The Red Balloon. CBS Saturday morning (afternoon?) Playhouse. Loved those movies. Youtube has clips of some favorites. #kidlitchat |
| 8:34 pm | erinbowbooks: | “Literary” books have a richness that lets people read them again and again. That doesn’t always means “symbolism” #kidlitchat |
| 8:34 pm | ktubb: | Is symbolism in the writer or the reader? #kidlitchat |
| 8:34 pm | TomYHowe: | Allegory is symbolism without its pants on. #kidlitchat |
| 8:34 pm | _rachelsimon: | RT @LiaKeyes: Snow White is full of symbolism: Colors (red,white, black); the number seven (Biblical # of perfection) #kidlitchat |
| 8:34 pm | bonnieadamson: | @sandyalonzo Good point–what teachers tell you to look for; but don’t you think you “get” it on some level anyway? #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | catesfolly: | Allegory is a kind of symbolic story, right? The whole story can be seen as representing something else. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | maggiedana: | Agreed. RT @dlschubert: I think peoples perception of symbolism is often nothing more than opinion. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | LoulieArt: | @crissachappell Yep, and the smoke rising up out of the van. Groovy. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | sharifwrites: | @dlschubert You mean we’re reading too much into it? A story is a story and we overanalyze? #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | LiaKeyes: | Symbolism: using symbolic images and indirect suggestion to express mystical ideas, emotions, and states of mind. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | jeanie_w: | RT @DDHearn: People can find different symbols, some perhaps not even meant by the author. Reading is a two-way conversation. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | tehawesomersace: | Yes! Esp w/sex references. RT @dlschubert: I think peoples perception of symbolism is often nothing more than opinion. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | editorgurl: | @bonnieadamson Interesting. I think “literary” novels tend to be rich and multilayered in theme, not necc. in symbols. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | DDHearn: | @editorgurl I’m with you. Characters and motivation, dialog, good plot, lovely writing…I get these more than symbolism. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | CynthiaCWillis: | @hatbooks Exactly! Symbols and threads come about in a first draft and can then be polished or deleted in revision. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | varianjohnson: | Agree. RT @DDHearn: People can find different symbols, in books, some perhaps not even meant by the author. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | myrrr: | RT @sandyalonzo: For most teen readers, symbolism is what your English teacher tells you to look for in the assigned reads. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | AudryT: | Agreed! RT@DDHearn Reading is a two-way conversation. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | amithaknight: | @dlschubert sometimes one’s interpretation of symbols can be a personal thing. #kidlitchat |
| 8:35 pm | KateMessner: | Discussion of importance of symbolism in kidlit tonight is going to be a great resource for teachers when transcript is up! #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | LJBoldyrev: | Good question! I try to incorporate some symbolism when I write. RT @ktubb: Is symbolism in the writer or the reader? #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | DDHearn: | @sandyalonzo The book used stills from the film, but I never knew that. Just thought it was a book with photographs. #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | dlschubert: | RT @DDHearn People find different symbols in books some perhaps not even meant by the author. Reading is a two-way conversation. #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | EgmontUSA: | I do think that symbolism done right is like little insider secrets that you gloat over because you get it, but . . . . #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | erinbowbooks: | @leewind. “Are symbols and themes the extras…” I think if they’re sprinkled on the top, they don’t work. #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | catesfolly: | And that’s a metaphor — that I don’t totally get. RT @TomYHowe: Allegory is symbolism without its pants on. #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | WriterRoss: | @ktubb Excellent point. What are those tests called– Rorshach? Ink blots? What does that cloud look like to -you-? #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | skodobah: | @CynthiaCWillis It’s symbolic in that someone paid someone else to write the script!#kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | debbieohi: | @WriterRoss @DDHearn The Red Balloon is one of my favourite movies & I was recently given the book adaptation. #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | myrrr: | I agree. RT @erinbowbooks: “Literary” books have a richness that lets people re-read them. That doesnt always mean “symbolism” #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | sandyalonzo: | @bonnieadamson That’s true, teen readers do ‘get’ what they’re reading, but most don’t analyze their intuitions. #kidlitchat |
| 8:36 pm | littlefluffycat: | @DDHearn EXACTLY.  #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | laurielyoung: | RT @ktubb: Is symbolism in the writer or the reader? Good point, maybe it is the reader’s job to look for the symbolism? #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | EgmontUSA: | so easy to get caught up w/ searching for symbols everywhere, and they aren’t nec. there #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | catesfolly: | I think symbolism a dangerous topic in the hands of English teachers. Better thought of as that mystery spice you can’t name. #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | kcclyburn: | I’m having flashbacks to the scary bits of English class when we were practically forced to search for symbolism…#kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | LoulieArt: | @_rachelsimon Red, white and black made me think of Lord of the Dance by Michael Flatley. (sp?) Bad girl in red… good white #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | EKokie: | Sorry I’m late. Symbolism is an interesting topic. Symbolism seems most effective when book works whether you see it or not. #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | amithaknight: | does finding an unintended (by the author) symbol mean it isn’t valuable to think about? #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | DDHearn: | @bonnieadamson I think allegory is much more clearly interpreted than symbolism. Symbolism can be interpreted different ways. #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | laurielyoung: | RT @ktubb: Is symbolism in the writer or the reader? Good point, maybe it is the reader’s job to look for the symbolism? #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | helainebecker: | @DDHearn Exactly – that’s “deconstructing the text” in blobberspeak #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | crissachappell: | @AudryT yes! That’s what I mean by “active reader.” You get to play along (co-partner in crime with the author) #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | dlschubert: | Yup!! @sharifwrites You mean we’re reading too much into it? A story is a story and we overanalyze? #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | sandyalonzo: | @DDHearn I wish I would’ve known about the Red Balloon book when I was teaching kindergarten in L.A. #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | _rachelsimon: | RT @EgmontUSA: so easy to get caught up w/ searching for symbols everywhere, and they arent nec. there #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | littlefluffycat: | @EgmontUSA I think sometimes you don’t even *have* to get it. It’s just part of that feeling of satisfaction. #kidlitchat |
| 8:37 pm | bonnieadamson: | Unconscious symbolism is what made me place my MC’s house next to a river rather than a pond . . . I think. #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | debbieohi: | @DDHearn Ever since the movie, I’ve incorporated the red balloon into a lot of my art as well as my biz card. #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | AudryT: | Symbolism is a tool, and how well you use a tool depends on how well you understand its purpose. #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | JennBailey: | RT @catesfolly: Symbolism a dangerous in the hands of English teachers. Better thought of as mystery spice you cant name. #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | malindalo: | Symbolism is in the editor RT @ktubb: Is symbolism in the writer or the reader? #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | kimberlyrpauley: | @EgmontGal there’s symbolism and then there’s SYMBOLISM. Some people take it too seriously, or rather, themselves too seriously. #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | varianjohnson: | It’s a beautiful thing when a reader gets symbolism without an adult pointing it out. Makes the reader part of the story. #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | TomYHowe: | @catesfolly I see allegory as naked symbolism, it’s not trying to hide the fact that it’s speaking symbolically. #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | littlefluffycat: | @editorgurl but don’t you think everyone has their own symbology, & it’s part of their truth? #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | CynthiaCWillis: | @skodobah LOL! That’s true, isn’t it? #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | kimberlyrpauley: | @EgmontUSA But there are definitely books out there that use it well. #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | maggiedana: | Ditto. RT @dlschubert: Yup!! @sharifwrites You mean were reading too much into it? A story is a story and we overanalyze? #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | dlschubert: | @amithaknight I think most times that’s the case (one’s interpretation of symbols can be a personal thing.) #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | DDHearn: | @dlschubert I agree with you.I read a whole book about the Christian symbolism in Harry Potter but others might see differently. #kidlitchat |
| 8:38 pm | hatbooks: | @myrrr But just cuz symbolism is often taught in uninspiring ways, doesn’t mean it can’t be written, used in inspiring ways. #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | marcie8: | here here! RT @catesfolly: symbolism is better thought of as that mystery spice you can’t name. #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | LiaKeyes: | RT @AudryT: Symbolism is a tool, and how well you use a tool depends on how well you understand its purpose. #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | sandyalonzo: | @kcclyburn Yes! It was scary in high school to try to find what the heck the book was ’supposed’ to be saying. #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | catesfolly: | For instance, many people have suggested that The Lord of the Rings is an allegory for the World Wars:Â http://bit.ly/30nJeL #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | erinbowbooks: | I think someone could probably write a paper on symbols in my book — but I don’t know what it would say. #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | littlefluffycat: | @DDHearn Great point! I wonder if that doesn’t make allegory much more valid for a younger audience? #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | DDHearn: | RT @TomYHowe: Allegory is symbolism without its pants on. #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | kimberlyrpauley: | @EgmontUSA Besides, if you have to hit someone over the head with it, then you’ve got other issues  #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | WriterRoss: | @_rachelsimon Re: Snow White’s symbolism. Yes, going Disney but I’ve never thought of any of that. Well, maybe the apple part… #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | catesfolly: | @TomYHowe Oh nice! Love that! #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | helainebecker: | @lkblackburne Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland both spring to mind. #kidlitchat |
| 8:39 pm | ktubb: | @malindalo #kidlitchat |
| 8:40 pm | lkblackburne: | So anyone out there purposely putting symbols in their writing? How? #kidlitchat |
| 8:40 pm | crissachappell: | @JennBailey hey..um…I’m an English prof (::grins::) No matter how often we discuss a story, somebody always sees new details #kidlitchat |
| 8:40 pm | gavinobrown: | @catesfolly Symbolism lends itself to tidy analysis, which is why it’s overused in classrooms. #kidlitchat |
| 8:40 pm | AnnaZiska: | I must admit this is very good information. I will look at my next edit from another point of view. #kidlitchat |
| 8:40 pm | kimberlyrpauley: | @AudryT Definitely! #kidlitchat You said it, just nicer than me |
| 8:40 pm | LoulieArt: | @sandyalonzo Also took a lot of the joy out of it. #kidlitchat |
| 8:40 pm | DDHearn: | RT @skodobah: Buzz Lightyear – why does he have so many buttons?#kidlitchat Because they look cool? #kidlitchat |
| 8:40 pm | amithaknight: | I do! RT @littlefluffycat: @editorgurl but dont you think everyone has their own symbology, & its part of their truth? #kidlitchat |
| 8:40 pm | _rachelsimon: | @WriterRoss Original fairy tales have more symbolism than Disney versions, I feel, but both can be looked at equally. #kidlitchat |
| 8:40 pm | littlefluffycat: | RT @DDHearn: RT @TomYHowe: Allegory is symbolism without its pants on. #kidlitchat |
| 8:40 pm | KateMessner: | Readers may see symbolism authors didn’t intend – we all bring life experiences/beliefs to a book. It’s more than the text. #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | bonnieadamson: | Think about Shaun Tan’s THE ARRIVAL–don’t we recognize symbols of totalitarianism, understand better? #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | malindalo: | I think there are 2 sides here: reader & writer. Both approach symbolism differently. #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | maggiedana: | Dan Brown? RT @lkblackburne: So anyone out there purposely putting symbols in their writing? How? #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | AuthorTaraKelly: | Hi all! I’m way late, but wanted to peek in. #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | lkblackburne: | @catesfolly I’ve heard that the one ring in LOTR was inspired by the trenches of WWI but it is not an allegory for the atom bomb #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | leewind: | @erinbowbooks good point! can’t sprinkle them on top – need to blend them in with the rest of the ice cream! #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | LJBoldyrev: | @WriterRoss The original Snow White was a German fairy tale. Or, the most notable version was the one recorded by the Grimm Bros #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | myrrr: | Ha! RT @littlefluffycat: RT @DDHearn: RT @TomYHowe: Allegory is symbolism without its pants on. #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | EKokie: | Or to be so heavy-handed it overwhelms the story – like too much salt. @EgmontUSA so easy to get caught up searching for symbols #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | sandyalonzo: | @LoulieArt Yes, especially poetry. What a chore that became. #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | LJBoldyrev: | And Grimm Bros stories often had a lot of symbolism. #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | quirkywriter: | @LoulieArt has me wanting to watch Scooby now. #kidlitchat |
| 8:41 pm | karianneholt: | jumping into the fray to ask if easter eggs can count as symbolism. Maybe they are symbolism’s less didactic cousins? #kidlitchat |
| 8:42 pm | DDHearn: | RT @ktubb: Is symbolism in the writer or the reader? I think it can be both. Readers often bring their own interpretation. #kidlitchat |
| 8:42 pm | earth_mommy: | @catesfolly hubby had English teacher that didn’t know diff btwn Don Quixote & Dante #Kidlitchat |
| 8:42 pm | LoulieArt: | @KateMessner Yep, like how everyone interprets art differently. Means something unique to the person viewing. #kidlitchat |
| 8:42 pm | myrrr: | Very true. RT @malindalo: I think there are 2 sides here: reader & writer. Both approach symbolism differently. #kidlitchat |
| 8:42 pm | LiaKeyes: | @lkblackburne Tolkien used to get heated when people claimed LoTR was an allegory. He said there was none intended. #kidlitchat |
| 8:42 pm | malindalo: | I think writers definitely need to consider the symbolism/allegory in their work. It can be both conscious & unconscious. #kidlitchat |
| 8:42 pm | varianjohnson: | As a reader, I expect a writer to carry symbolism through to it’s natural end, if it’s included at the beginning of a ms. #kidlitchat |
| 8:42 pm | thebookbarr: | Hi everyone. Sorry to arrive to chat so late, I will try to catch up … #kidlitchat |
| 8:43 pm | catesfolly: | @bonnieadamson yes, symbolism in illustrations maybe more powerful even? Symbols are images after all right? #kidlitchat |
| 8:43 pm | TomYHowe: | Tolkein hated allegory and swore his book was not that. He said he told a story. Allegory is usually heavyhanded teaching. #kidlitchat |
| 8:43 pm | lkblackburne: | @maggiedana Dan brown sure uses alot of symbols — in the literal sense. #kidlitchat |
| 8:43 pm | CynthiaCWillis: | RT @myrrr: Very true. RT @malindalo: I think there are 2 sides here: reader & writer. Both approach symbolism differently. #kidlitchat |
| 8:43 pm | maggiedana: | No windmills in hell? RT @earth_mommy: @catesfolly hubby had English teacher that didnt know diff btwn Don Quixote & Dante #kidlitchat |
| 8:43 pm | LJBoldyrev: | @ktubbHence the reason we have several drastically different religions that stem from the same book. #kidlitchat |
| 8:43 pm | lkblackburne: | @varianjohnson In that case, is symbolism restrictive? #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | dlschubert: | When I’m writing, adding symbolism to my story is the last thing on my (conscious) mind. Telling the story’s what’s on my mind. #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | jeanie_w: | RT @KateMessner: Readers may see symbolism authors didn’t intend – we bring life experiences/beliefs to a book. #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | WriterRoss: | @LJBoldyrev And those things flew right over my head as a kid. Textured the story but I had no clue What Meant What. #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | auntieflamingo: | Any art form is open to interpretation. Writing, Visual Art, Music #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | amithaknight: | i’ve never liked allegorical stories. at least not once I *realized* were allegory #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | saundramitchell: | Symbolism, for me, shows up on accident in the first draft. Sometimes, I cut it out. Sometimes I try to carry it through. #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | RabbitsGift: | RT @KateMessner Readers may see symbolism authors didn’t intend – we all bring life experiences/beliefs to a book. #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | bonnieadamson: | @catesfolly Visual symbols are shorthand–pack a lot of meaning in that doesn’t need to be spelled out. #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | helainebecker: | Cool! RT @lioncaller: @ddhearn The root of Raskolnikov means “split.” #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | myrrr: | RT @TomYHowe: Tolkein hated allegory and swore his book was not that. Allegory is usually heavyhanded teaching. #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | kcclyburn: | @lkblackburne Yeeeaaah, but Dan Brown’s not a good writer. Therefore, he has not effing clue how to use them. #kidlitchat |
| 8:44 pm | SaraLewisHolmes: | @bonnieadamson Oooh, great example. THE ARRIVAL is powerful. #kidlitchat |
| 8:45 pm | catesfolly: | Someone said back there symbols a way to make a story more timeless — diff gen’s can bring diff interpretations to same story. #kidlitchat |
| 8:45 pm | varianjohnson: | @malindalo But I think symbolism in some types of books is a waste of time (and energy) for the author. #kidlitchat |
| 8:45 pm | DDHearn: | @catesfolly Maybe means allegory spells things out so clearly it cannot be mistaken for anything else. Symbolism can be subtle. #kidlitchat |
| 8:45 pm | EKokie: | Some authors get upset when readers see unintended symbolism. But if it is speaking to reader in a special way, that is special #kidlitchat |
| 8:45 pm | lioncaller: | @LiaKeyes Ursula LeGuin also claims her work is not allegory; total denial. #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | auntieflamingo: | @bonnieadamson I like your icon but I keep missing your tweets. Still looking for the cartoon icon. LOL #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | SaraLewisHolmes: | @catesfolly yes, that’s what I was attempting to say earlier. Symbols are images and they’re visual forces. #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | crissachappell: | @EKokie yes…because it’s not “your” book anymore. It belongs to the reader. #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | dlschubert: | Amen! RT @LJBoldyrev the reason we have several drastically different religions that stem from the same book. #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | varianjohnson: | @lkblackburne Yes, it can be very restrictive. Symbolism in the form of metaphor must work for both the symbol and the plot. #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | earth_mommy: | @maggiedana He thought it very unfair he was better read than his teacher lol #Kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | amithaknight: | for me finding hidden symbols in my writing is kind of like realizing how autobiographical my fiction is #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | CynthiaCWillis: | @EKokie I so agree with that! It’s not up to the writer to infringe on the reader’s experience, right? #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | saundramitchell: | But most of the time, symbolism is something readers bring, not something I put in it. The dress is red because I like red! #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | malindalo: | @varianjohnson Sure! It doesn’t always work. That’s why writers need to be aware of what they’re doing. So they can cut stuff #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | lioncaller: | Definition of allegory is meaning outside the narrative. Can be political or social, doesn’t have to be moral. #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | SarahBWinters: | Sorry I am late my internet has been a pain plus dinner was 20 min later then it should’ve been #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | catesfolly: | @bonnieadamson like symbols are dense little packets of meaning. Or potential meaning depending on what experience you bring. #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | LoulieArt: | @SaraLewisHolmes RT #kidlitchat |
| 8:46 pm | LiaKeyes: | Plenty of symbolism in To Kill A Mockingbird, and The Great Gatsby. #kidlitchat |
| 8:47 pm | WriterRoss: | @saundramitchell And intentional symbol-dropping is most likely fodder for rejection as “heavy-handed” from editors and agents. #kidlitchat |
| 8:47 pm | bonnieadamson: | @lioncaller Wow, that is denial. I consider LeGuin one of the most heavily allegorical–but in a nice way! #kidlitchat |
| 8:47 pm | peg366: | RT @lioncaller: @LiaKeyes Ursula LeGuin also claims her work is not allegory; total denial. #kidlitchatI agree. |
| 8:47 pm | DDHearn: | @catesfolly I loved Russian literature as a teen; had it spoiled by a Russian literature class that analyzed it all to death. #kidlitchat |
| 8:47 pm | TomYHowe: | @lkblackburne Ha! He uses symbols literally. #kidlitchat |
| 8:47 pm | SaraLewisHolmes: | Or symbols are right brain thinking and prose is left brain thinking and in a good story, they work together. #kidlitchat |
| 8:47 pm | leewind: | #kidlitchat I’m thinking @ how the “symbolic” death of the main character at climax of story is so common it’s become mythic |
| 8:48 pm | EKokie: | Sometimes readers are need to see something, ie lot of gay kids see Harry Potter as gay allegory. If it helps them, that’s good. #kidlitchat |
| 8:48 pm | hatbooks: | If you use the shrunken manuscript technique in revising, you can mark your symbols/metaphors with stickers and monitor them. #kidlitchat |
| 8:48 pm | thebookbarr: | Book group discussions are a great place to see the symbolism from different perspectives – and sometimes heated debates… #kidlitchat |
| 8:48 pm | varianjohnson: | RT @SaraLewisHolmes: Or symbols are right brain thinking & prose is left brain thinking & in a good story, they work together. #kidlitchat |
| 8:48 pm | LJBoldyrev: | @DDHearn I still love Russian lit! I mention Anna Karenina in my WIP #kidlitchat |
| 8:48 pm | bonnieadamson: | @catesfolly–Or like in movies: I’ve heard signing big name actor saves lots of exposition: audience knows what to expect. #kidlitchat |
| 8:48 pm | quirkywriter: | RT @jeanie_w: RT @KateMessner: Readers may see symbolism authors didn’t intend – we bring life experiences/beliefs to a book. #kidlitchat |
| 8:49 pm | leewind: | @saundramitchell ahhh, but WHY do you like red? *pulls out Therapist’s doodle pad* #kidlitchat |
| 8:49 pm | myrrr: | @LiaKeyes I love the The Great Gatsby. Symbolism in the story is like seasoning, but doesn’t overpower. #kidlitchat |
| 8:49 pm | dlschubert: | Exactly! RT @saundramitchell Symbolism is what readers bring, not what I put in it. The dress is red because I like red! #kidlitchat |
| 8:49 pm | TomYHowe: | Too much overt symbolism is often a red flag for a beginning writer. Like “hey, look at me, I’m a symbol!” #kidlitchat |
| 8:49 pm | sandyalonzo: | @SaraLewisHolmes I’m a right brain writer and a right brain reader. Do they always match? #kidlitchat |
| 8:49 pm | WriterRoss: | What would Freud and Jung say about this chat? ;> #kidlitchat |
| 8:49 pm | bonnieadamson: | @leewind Or the hero’s quest–can hardly avoid it once you look for it. #kidlitchat |
| 8:49 pm | CynthiaCWillis: | Great conversation, everyone, but I’m out. Have a great night! #kidlitchat |
| 8:49 pm | LoulieArt: | @hatbooks Ooooh, I’d love to hear more! #kidlitchat |
| 8:49 pm | DDHearn: | @LiaKeyes Just the fact that people can interpret LOTR in different ways proves it isn’t an allegory, but it contains symbolism. #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | LJBoldyrev: | @TomYHowe Duly noted. #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | kcclyburn: | There are some stories that just have no symbolism at all, except the symbols you want to take away from it. #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | ktubb: | @hatbooks Ah, a fellow Darcy Pattison fan? (I love the shrunken ms technique!) #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | TomYHowe: | RT @SaraLewisHolmes Or symbols are right brain thinking and prose is left brain thinking and in a good story they work together #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | catesfolly: | RT @leewind: #kidlitchat Im thinking how the symbolic death of the MC at climax of story is so common its become mythic #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | WriterRoss: | @leewind It’s her mother’s fault. It’s always the mother’s fault. ;} #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | bonnieadamson: | RT @LoulieArt: @hatbooks Ooooh, I’d love to hear more! #kidlitchat yes, me too! |
| 8:50 pm | happybluejess: | @WriterRoss I like “textured”: reminds me of discovering layers in a story (as I read or write) that I didn’t see at first. #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | lioncaller: | @ddhearn Wld you say most artists are unaware of sym? Raphael, Michaelangelo, all logo developers, to hit the spectrum? #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | maggiedana: | A mind-blowing thought. RT @WriterRoss: What would Freud and Jung say about this chat? ;> #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | LoulieArt: | @WriterRoss put “in bed” at the end of every sentence. hee hee. oh wait, that’s fortune cookies. #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | SaraLewisHolmes: | @sandyalonzo I don’t know…interesting question! #kidlitchat |
| 8:50 pm | DaphneUn: | Gak! People talking about symbolism in #kidlitchat gives me bad flashbacks to college English theory classes. |
| 8:51 pm | quirkywriter: | Hi Sarah. : ) #kidlitchat |
| 8:51 pm | myrrr: | how interesting. RT @sandyalonzo: @SaraLewisHolmes Im a right brain writer and a right brain reader. Do they always match? #kidlitchat |
| 8:52 pm | crissachappell: | @catesfolly It is mythic..according to Joseph Campbell (“black moment” when the hero’s old self dies and becomes a new person) #kidlitchat |
| 8:52 pm | lioncaller: | I see Russian lit as *meant* for analysis. Was the bent of the authors. Also Mann, Hesse, Camus, Sarte, Wilde, etc. #kidlitchat |
| 8:52 pm | amithaknight: | @DaphneUn I understand symbolism more than i did in college. i found talking about it completely pointless then but not now. #kidlitchat |
| 8:52 pm | hatbooks: | for the shrunken Manuscript technique see the WOW! Women on Writing article by Darcy Pattisonhttp://bit.ly/cAUKr #kidlitchat |
| 8:52 pm | DDHearn: | @LJBoldyrev I still love it too, but I don’t try to analyze it a lot. #kidlitchat |
| 8:52 pm | catesfolly: | @peg366 re: ULG I think maybe diff between her use of archetypal themes and writing “allegory” (I can see why she’d deny it) #kidlitchat |
| 8:52 pm | dlschubert: | That we all crave s*x w/relatives? @WriterRoss What would Freud and Jung say about this chat? #kidlitchat |
| 8:53 pm | maggiedana: | Some here have Twitter names that are symbolic of who they are. #kidlitchat |
| 8:53 pm | WriterRoss: | @happybluejess Did I write “textured”? Checking back. Yes. I. Did. Didn’t notice it first time around. Ahah. Symbolism at work! #kidlitchat |
| 8:53 pm | bonnieadamson: | RT @hatbooks: for the shrunken Manuscript technique see the WOW! Women on Writing article by Darcy Pattison http://bit.ly/cAUKr #kidlitchat |
| 8:53 pm | DDHearn: | There is no way to mistake Pilgrim’s Progress for anything other than a Christian allegory. Allegory isn’t subtle. #kidlitchat |
| 8:53 pm | EKokie: | Many of masters were deft hands at symbolism – even used it for make political & religious commentary @lioncaller @ddhearn #kidlitchat |
| 8:53 pm | WriterRoss: | @LoulieArt (laughing… in bed) #kidlitchat |
| 8:54 pm | SaraLewisHolmes: | Fail whale is an interesting symbol. #kidlitchat |
| 8:54 pm | auntieflamingo: | Very True RT @maggiedana: Some here have Twitter names that are symbolic of who they are. #kidlitchat |
| 8:54 pm | lights_aurora: | @maggiedana I do. My twitter name is from back in high school, the Aurora’s to me symbolize my reach for greater understanding. #kidlitchat |
| 8:54 pm | ktubb: | @happybluejess Hi, Happy Blue! #kidlitchat |
| 8:54 pm | bonnieadamson: | LOL–So, I take it, for agents/editors, the answer to the origianl topic question is “not very”! #kidlitchat |
| 8:54 pm | AudryT: | Sometimes a book feels like it is going to be a powerful allegory, but by the end it’s clear the author saw only a literal story #kidlitchat |
| 8:55 pm | lights_aurora: | @maggiedana The Aurora’s meant to me a higher being, wisdom, tolerance of the earth below & the reaches of man to beyond. #kidlitchat |
| 8:55 pm | LiaKeyes: | Symbolism is used to provide meaning beyond what is actually being described. In censorious times, symbols were powerful tools. #kidlitchat |
| 8:55 pm | editorgurl: | @littlefluffycat maybe, but to me talking symbols with an author would just ruin it. rather it be subconscious, for both of us! #kidlitchat |
| 8:55 pm | WriterRoss: | @SaraLewisHolmes That is the 2nd time I have heard that phrase today. What does “Fail Whale” mean? #kidlitchat |
| 8:55 pm | catesfolly: | @DDHearn An allegory can only have one right interpretation? I wonder if artists feel belittled if their work called allegory? #kidlitchat |
| 8:55 pm | happybluejess: | @WriterRoss It’s just that I can’t keep up! #kidlitchat |
| 8:55 pm | lioncaller: | @catesfolly @peg66 Four Ways to Forgiveness is certainly allegorical (UKL)–so is Left Hand of Darkness. #kidlitchat |
| 8:55 pm | laurielyoung: | @maggiedana I did have a more “symbolic” twitter name, but greg pincus talked me out of it :0) #kidlitchat |
| 8:55 pm | hatbooks: | shrunken ms. technique is great for helping you see development of a metaphor or symbol. Can see when you have overdone it. #kidlitchat |
| 8:56 pm | ktubb: | RT @maggiedana: Some here have Twitter names that are symbolic of who they are. <<Or in my case, who my hubby’s family is? #kidlitchat |
| 8:56 pm | AmyBaskin: | Love the Smith/Frazee pb. Mrs. Biddlebox fights her bad day and steps out into the night to “sleep”. Symbolic? Yep? Works, too. #kidlitchat |
| 8:56 pm | _rachelsimon: | @happybluejess You can always read the transcripts of the chat later! #kidlitchat |
| 8:56 pm | DDHearn: | @maggiedana Freud would probably say we’re all really talking about sexual repression. Jung? Tapping into our mutual unconcious? #kidlitchat |
| 8:56 pm | TomYHowe: | Lordy, I need to get off that #kidlitchat thread, it’s like speed reading and speed writing on speed, with a little extra speed thrown in. |
| 8:56 pm | EgmontUSA: | @bonnieadamson I think it’s a nice extra, but not a necessity. #kidlitchat |
| 8:56 pm | WriterRoss: | @editorgurl It’s like dissecting a kiss. Just… let it be. #kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | LiaKeyes: | A werewolf story that doesn’t utilize the symbolism of werewolves is only half the story it could be (the beast within) #kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | dlschubert: | To sum it up, symbolism emerges from our subconscious minds. English Lit classes are the annoying rehashing of said subcon. #kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | LJBoldyrev: | @editorgurl when writing,my symbolism comes naturally and it’s like an a-ha! when I realize what it means & I can work from that #kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | ktubb: | @AmyBaskin Mrs. Biddlebox is one of my all-time favorites. #kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | SaraLewisHolmes: | @WriterRoss Fail whale is the beached whale that shows up when Twitter gets overloaded. #kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | BlogadsBookHive: | @WriterRoss http://bit.ly/8ENM3 #kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | LiaKeyes: | AGREED! RT @EgmontUSA: @bonnieadamson I think its a nice extra, but not a necessity. #kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | happybluejess: | @ktubb Hi! Yikes, this requires some fast fingers! #kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | jeannevb: | Is this #deliveranceCHAT? Hee RT @dlschubert That we all crave s*x w/relatives? @WriterRoss#kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | bonnieadamson: | RT @EgmontUSA: @bonnieadamson I think it’s a nice extra, but not a necessity. #kidlitchat |
| 8:57 pm | maggiedana: | Let It Be. Beatles’ symbolism at work? RT @WriterRoss: @editorgurl Its like dissecting a kiss. Just… let it be. #kidlitchat |
| 8:58 pm | EKokie: | I also think sometimes a writer’s unconscious use of repeating themes/symbols actually *can* add another layer to work. #kidlitchat |
| 8:58 pm | catesfolly: | @EgmontUSA I’m not even sure it’s extra; we swim in symbols, but they are ignorable if the story’s well written? #kidlitchat |
| 8:58 pm | _rachelsimon: | RT @LiaKeyes: AGREED! RT @EgmontUSA: @bonnieadamson I think its a nice extra, but not a necessity. #kidlitchat |
| 8:58 pm | WriterRoss: | @ktubb (Yes. Linda Smith. Sigh.)  #kidlitchat |
| 8:58 pm | DDHearn: | @lioncaller I have no idea what other artists are intending when they paint, I’m sure we express things we aren’t aware of. #kidlitchat |
| 8:58 pm | myrrr: | @editorgurl Talking symbols with an author is like talking to a musician about the intended meaning of their lyrics/music. #kidlitchat |
| 8:58 pm | saundramitchell: | Mostly, I like finding out what other people see in my work. It’s always a revelation. Sometimes I feel like, as the author, I’m #kidlitchat |
| 8:58 pm | saundramitchell: | The least qualified person to tell you what my book is about. #kidlitchat |
| 8:59 pm | _rachelsimon: | Alright you guys (and girls) I am going to head off… Great chat and see you all hopefully next week! Bye! #kidlitchat |
| 8:59 pm | laurielyoung: | I have to go, much work to finish before bed. See y’all next week!  #kidlitchat |
| 8:59 pm | amithaknight: | i wonder if an editor’s ever read the symbolism/imagery in someone’s work and then referred them to a psychiatrist? #kidlitchat |
| 8:59 pm | DDHearn: | @lioncaller Darn. And what I loved (and love) about Russian lit are the characters, dialog and writing. Oh well…. #kidlitchat |
| 8:59 pm | LJBoldyrev: | @saundramitchell which makes it very difficult to craft a synopsis lol #kidlitchat |
| 8:59 pm | WriterRoss: | @BlogadsBookHive Oh my g-d. Had no idea! The Moby Dick of all symbols! #kidlitchat |
| 9:00 pm | littlefluffycat: | @editorgurl @myrrr the only time I would talk symbols is if it’s gone badly wrong and the works are showing, kwim? #kidlitchat |
| 9:00 pm | LiaKeyes: | Blood a symbol of guilt in Macbeth; conch shell symbolizes order and democracy in Lord of the Flies; snakes in HP’s Slytherin #kidlitchat |
| 9:00 pm | helainebecker: | Yes, people do have personal symbols. But there are also symbols that are generally agreed on – cigar + phallic, earth=mom #kidlitchat |
| 9:00 pm | LoulieArt: | G’night everybody. #kidlitchat |
| 9:00 pm | AnnaZiska: | @saundramitchell Well said! #kidlitchat |
| 9:00 pm | SuePinto: | OK, I’m going to bed..and by bed, I mean sleep…and by sleep, I mean hoping not to be woken up until I need to. No symbols #kidlitchat |
| 9:00 pm | dpeterfreund: | Folks often find symbols i didn’t realize, but my litcrit academic background means I’ll chat abt it til cows come home. #kidlitchat |
| 9:00 pm | helainebecker: | I think its so cool when you discover your own unconscious symbolism in your own msU didn’t intend it to be there, but it is.#kidlitchat |
| 9:00 pm | EgmontUSA: | @catesfolly Our culture’s steeped in symbolism . . . #kidlitchat |
| 9:00 pm | SaraLewisHolmes: | @saundramitchell Symbols: authors are the last to know. (sounds like a PSA) #kidlitchat |
| 9:01 pm | helainebecker: | RT @helainebecker: @EgmontUSA That’s not what Barthe says! #kidlitchat |
| 9:01 pm | lioncaller: | @myrr So you would say that Peter & Wolf, Night on Bald Mtn, Appalachian Spring, Ode to Joy have no composer-intended meaning? #kidlitchat |
| 9:01 pm | EgmontUSA: | @catesfolly but if I can’t find an instance of meaningful symbolism in your book, I’ll still consider it. #kidlitchat |
| 9:01 pm | dlschubert: | I’m a songwriter & I totally agree: RT @myrrr Talking symbols w/authors = talking to musicians @ meaning of lyrics/music. #kidlitchat |
| 9:01 pm | thebookbarr: | I am suddenly more aware of symbolism in my WIP and hope it comes just as naturally now that I am thinking about it! #kidlitchat |
| 9:01 pm | helainebecker: | some of that “richness” does indeed come from symbolism, references and allusions to other texts – literary shortcuts #kidlitchat |
| 9:01 pm | myrrr: | Yes! RT @littlefluffycat the only time I would talk symbols is if its gone badly wrong and the works are showing, kwim? #kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | catesfolly: | @EgmontUSA Amen to that. #kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | DDHearn: | @lights_aurora And here I am just using the initials of my first and middle name, and my last name. Symbolism eludes me. #kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | bonnieadamson: | Despite the “heavy” topic, this hour has flown by–thank you all! #kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | helainebecker: | @leewind For me they are.Definitely. Even if you don’t understand them cognitively, you get em intuitively. Sometimes. You hope.#kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | simmertilldone: | Daughter saw 13 REASONS WHY Jay Asher @ lit event today, loved personality. Great when kids meet fave authors. #kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | helainebecker: | That’s one reason why they teach lit. – because educated readers learn to pick it up themselves & get more from the book #kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | dpeterfreund: | tho i hated that crap in hs english class about the stupid conch. if you have to TELL me what the symbol means… #kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | saundramitchell: | @SaraLewisHolmes LOLOL doesn’t it, though? #kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | dpeterfreund: | ur doing it wrong #kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | helainebecker: | What about references to classical lit, bible? I find most Western lit uses archetypes as scaffold. HarryP is a Christ allegory #kidlitchat |
| 9:02 pm | DDHearn: | @catesfolly I think most artists would feel bad about their work being called allegory. Allegory isn’t a popular style today. #kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | littlefluffycat: | @helainebecker what’s odd is, people will sometimes see their personal symbols & miss the generally agreed on ones. #kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | lioncaller: | @ddhearn Re R lit, sure, but I think the authors hoped you’d see more. And some teens love to look for more. Even need it. #kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | helainebecker: | And sometimes the symb. builds toward the end with a kapow revelation; how would you know the apple was symb. until the bite?#kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | jeanie_w: | @BonnieAdamson Thank you, Bonnie! #kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | dlschubert: | How true! RT @bonnieadamson Despite the “heavy” topic, this hour has flown by–thank you all! #kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | auntieflamingo: | @bonnieadamson Thank you Bonnie for hosting another great chat #kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | EKokie: | @leewind Only anecdotal & my own reading re HP. But boy in closet, feeling dif, secret society, older man as guide…wands ;} #kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | saundramitchell: | @dpeterfreund Yow, my teacher loved to go on and on and on about what “wears his trousers rolled” really meant. #kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | catesfolly: | @myrrr yes, symbols like nice underwear. we like to imagine it there but it shouldn’t be hanging out. #kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | helainebecker: | Not required, but to me that’s what takes a story to the next level and makes it literature. Tying the everyday to the meta.#kidlitchat |
| 9:03 pm | PictureBookArt: | #@writeRoss, yes! Readers takes bks on differently, for some symbolism is a nuanced layer of the story, not independent study. #kidlitchat |
| 9:04 pm | AnnaZiska: | Thanks for the information tonight. I always learn from these great chats. My family is calling for brownies & ice cream  ) #kidlitchat |
| 9:04 pm | LJBoldyrev: | @dpeterfreund The worst for me was Hemmingway’s Hills Like Pink Elephants #kidlitchat |
| 9:04 pm | sarahhazelton: | Wrote discussion questions about symbolism all morning, and now #kidlitchat is talking about it. Eek! #brainhurts #morecoffee |
| 9:04 pm | sandyalonzo: | Maybe the symbolism in lit changes when the culture changes. #kidlitchat |
| 9:04 pm | amithaknight: | I’m sure I do this. RT @littlefluffycat: @helainebecker people see their personal symbols&miss the generally agreed on ones. #kidlitchat |
| 9:04 pm | SaraLewisHolmes: | Thank you, Bonnie, for pulling solo duty w/o Greg. ’twas fun! #kidlitchat |
| 9:04 pm | saundramitchell: | @dpeterfreund Mmmmaybe it just means he’s too old to go mad pimpin’ like he used to? Why does it have to be complicated? #kidlitchat |
| 9:04 pm | WriterRoss: | RT @dlschubert: Im a songwriter & agree: @myrrr Talking symbols w/authors = talking to musicians @ meaning of lyrics/music. #kidlitchat |
| 9:05 pm | happybluejess: | Night, all! Sweet (analyzed or not) dreams! #kidlitchat |
| 9:05 pm | malindalo: | @dpeterfreund @SaundraMitchell I sense that we all have bad memories of English class #kidlitchat |
| 9:05 pm | catesfolly: | Thank you @BonnieAdamson! Loved this one! #kidlitchat |
| 9:05 pm | LJBoldyrev: | @sandyalonzo The same can be said for history. As Culture changes, we see the past differently, even though it stays the same #kidlitchat |
| 9:05 pm | EKokie: | Maybe but sometimes so a part of the time @sandyalonzo: Maybe the symbolism in lit changes when the culture changes. #kidlitchat |
| 9:05 pm | helainebecker: | @karianneholt: Easter eggs: Fertility. Wholeness. Cycle of life. REbirth. #kidlitchat |
| 9:05 pm | kjerstinwittwer: | @sandyalonzo Absolutely. A lot of symbolism comes subconsciously and the culture’s bound to affect that. #kidlitchat |
| 9:05 pm | LJBoldyrev: | @malindalo yet we all love English lol #kidlitchat |
| 9:06 pm | littlefluffycat: | @amithaknight I think that’s part of getting what you need to get out of a book. #kidlitchat |
| 9:06 pm | myrrr: | @lioncaller There’s a difference between intention, symbolism and allegory. It’s a gradient. #kidlitchat |
| 9:06 pm | saundramitchell: | @malindalo @dpeterfreund LOL, it’s totally Alanis Morrisette-variety irony that we ended up writers, innit? #kidlitchat |
| 9:06 pm | WriterRoss: | @catesfolly Now you know why they call it UNDERwear. <g> #kidlitchat |
| 9:06 pm | dpeterfreund: | I just found that whole “the symbol is what I say it is” stuff in early HS english to be so tiresome. was worst in LordFlies #kidlitchat |
| 9:06 pm | DDHearn: | @SaraLewisHolmes I never knew the twitter whale was beached. I just saw him with little birds lifting him! Need to look closer. #kidlitchat |
| 9:06 pm | AudryT: | Not all of us. @dpeterfreund @SaundraMitchell I sense that we all have bad memories of English class #kidlitchat |
| 9:06 pm | ktubb: | G’night, all! Thanks for another great chat! #kidlitchat |
