Kidlitchat Transcript – March 9 (part 1)

2:01 am kidlitchat: TOPIC: Grammar. Word choice. Rhythm. Do basics ever get in the way of story? (Any tips or grammar horror stories?) #kidlitchat
2:01 am skodobah: @KrisYankee You can always have Nick on in the background. #kidlitchat
2:01 am PaulWHankins: RT @EgmontGal: So relieved Idol was only an hour so I can devote myself fully to my other passion, Kidlitchat. #kidlitchat
2:01 am dosankodebbie: RT @bonnieadamson: TOPIC: Grammar. Word choice. Rhythm. Do basics ever get in the way of story? (tips/grammar horror stories?) #kidlitchat
2:02 am skodobah: @JEMACLEOD Me, too. Then I just have to get rid of them. LOL! #kidlitchat
2:02 am JEMACLEOD: I can hear ICarly in the background #kidlitchat
2:02 am EgmontUSA: @Egmontgal We missed you! #kidlitchat
2:02 am 2KoP: My WIP is all about spelling, so word choice is essential to the story. #kidlitchat
2:02 am KrisYankee: @skodobah Sounds like MythBusters is on w/hubby. Nick does make me smile! #kidlitchat
2:02 am adamselzer: Rhythm is tough in middle grade. You can’t count on readers to read at the right speed for it. #kidlitchat
2:02 am JEMACLEOD: @skodobah Lots of words I have to get rid of. LOL #kidlitchat
2:02 am S_J_Bennett: @JEMACLEOD Those are two words I definitely overuse as well. Have to use “find” for those little guys when I’m editing. #kidlitchat
2:03 am skodobah: Contractions figure prominently in my YA work. #kidlitchat
2:03 am KarenCollum: Hi everyone. Wore the twins out with swimming lessons this morning so I *should* be right for today’s chat. #kidlitchat
2:03 am TheAsianAngel: I never read stories with short. Punchy. Sentences. #kidlitchat
2:03 am skodobah: @KrisYankee I like the guy w/a beret. #kidlitchat
2:03 am paulgreci: I think voice trumps the rules but it is good to know the rules, at least the basics. #kidlitchat
2:03 am 2KoP: @adamselzer I think rhythym is essential for middle grade; their ears are more attuned to rhythym. #kidlitchat
2:03 am skodobah: @JEMACLEOD I always call ‘em Hamburger Helper words. Filler. #kidlitchat
2:03 am KarenCollum: Wordle is great for seeing your overused words. I have a penchant for ‘just’ as well. #kidlitchat
2:03 am skodobah: @KarenCollum I need to get my kid in swimming lessons! #kidlitchat
2:04 am S_J_Bennett: @skodobah Me too. Super helpful for believable dialogue. #kidlitchat
2:04 am CarolTanzman: yes. voice trumps every rule. #kidlitchat
2:04 am marybrebner: Love the words “just” and “little”–have to purge those suckers on revision. Try not to worry about it during first draft. #kidlitchat
2:04 am skodobah: @paulgreci I agree. Voice rules. #kidlitchat
2:04 am KrisYankee: Basics are needed for pb, can be shoved aside a bit for MG and definitely YA. #kidlitchat
2:04 am DeborahFreedman: It depends if you are talking about pbs or novels – for the former, rhythm is key… #kidlitchat
2:04 am KarenCollum: RT @paulgreci: I think voice trumps the rules but it is good to know the rules <<You need to know the rules b4 you break them #kidlitchat
2:04 am susanjsteward: #kidlitchat Can we clarify a little? What is meant by “get in way of story”? Like . . . You have a great story to tell but no craft?
2:04 am skodobah: @KarenCollum Wordle? #kidlitchat
2:04 am 2KoP: @paulgreci voice trumps the rules, but not to the extent of Junie B. Jones. Nails on blackboard to me. #kidlitchat
2:04 am gregpincus: @adamselzer Rhythm is tough. I recall being at an airport book shop and hearing someone unable to read Fox in Sox with rhythm. #kidlitchat
2:04 am JEMACLEOD: @paulgreci Very good point. Rules must be known to be broken. :) #kidlitchat
2:04 am EgmontGal: My dear friend, the legendary editor Ann Durrel (Westing Game, Lloyd Alexander, Blair Lent etc) won’t read present tense #kidlitchat
2:04 am KarenCollum: @skodobah LOL It’s midday here so bubs down for their nap…I hope! #kidlitchat
2:04 am amyknichols: Hi #kidlitchat! I’m late but here. :) #kidlitchat
2:04 am KatApel: Internet is dodgy – again! Hoping I’m here for the duration. #kidlitchat
2:04 am marcie8: What’s Wordle? RT @KarenCollum: Wordle is great for seeing your overused words. I have a penchant for ‘just’ as well. #kidlitchat
2:04 am planetalvina: Hi all! I’m here…but am terrible at grammar. And speling. #kidlitchat
2:04 am timkeetonwriter: How is everyone tonight? #kidlitchat
2:05 am skodobah: @S_J_Bennett The teens get contractions, while the adults usually do not. #kidlitchat
2:05 am EgmontGal: @CarolTanzman voice trumps every rule except story. I’m just saying, all voice and no story can be a hard slog to read or sell #kidlitchat
2:05 am JEMACLEOD: @TheAsianAngel I. Love. Short. Punchy. Sentences. LOL #kidlitchat
2:05 am lkstrohecker: Nothing pulls me out of a book like than grammar/word choice errors. They’ll jolt me right out of an otherwise great story. #kidlitchat
2:05 am gregpincus: @EgmontGal She won’t read present tense? My word. I hope she lives in present tense, at least. #kidlitchat
2:05 am SolomonInkwell: In think, especially in YA, that rhythm is essential. I try to find ways to make the phrasing fun. #kidlitchat
2:05 am skodobah: @gregpincus Why does that make me laugh? #kidlitchat
2:05 am skodobah: @timkeetonwriter Glad to be here. How about you? #kidlitchat
2:05 am planetalvina: Speaking of word choice, I tend to have trouble reading books written in dialect. #kidlitchat
2:05 am KarenCollum: @skodobah http://www.wordle.net Creates a ‘cloud’ of words from your manuscript. More often used = bigger font. Very clever. #kidlitchat
2:05 am KrisYankee: @skodobah really? contractions like can’t, don’t or something else? like slang? #kidlitchat
2:05 am JEMACLEOD: @planetalvina I love that! #kidlitchat
2:06 am planetalvina: @gregpincus @EgmontGal I lived in past tense. #kidlitchat
2:06 am mbrockenbrough: @gregpincus, I can only stay momentarily, but grammar basics can impede story, whether you don’t know them or follow slavishly. #kidlitchat
2:06 am SolomonInkwell: By the by…hello there, all of you talented people… #kidlitchat
2:06 am mrswritebrain: I hate having to reword sentences because of pesky pronouns. “Chuck hit Foster with his fist.” Whose fist? #kidlitchat
2:06 am skodobah: @KarenCollum I love that. Hope it’s free. #kidlitchat
2:06 am emilytastic: @planetalvina I do too. Sometimes, it makes me feel sort of lame, glad to know I’m not the only one who has trouble w/ dialect. #kidlitchat
2:06 am CarolTanzman: @egmontGal. agreed. yes. story of course… #kidlitchat
2:06 am mbrockenbrough: @gregpincus The key is to know the rules, then break them when they serve your voice and character. #kidlitchat
2:06 am HeidiRKling: Pizza just arrived so I can’t stay. Wanted to say hi though! #kidlitchat
2:06 am 2KoP: RT @lkstrohecker: Nothing pulls me out of a book like than grammar/word choice errors. kidlitchat #kidlitchat
2:06 am skodobah: @KrisYankee Yep. Np, I mean like childbirth. Kidding! #kidlitchat
2:06 am MaryCalhounBrow: One of my editors eliminated a pile of “that” in my last manuscript. #kidlitchat
2:07 am marybrebner: @planetalvina Uhg. Me, too. When there’s an obvious, constant use of dialect, I get annoyed. A phrase here & there okay tho #kidlitchat
2:07 am skodobah: @SolomonInkwell Aw shucks. #kidlitchat
2:07 am KrisYankee: @EgmontGal I don’t like present tense either. It messes me up as an editor when my authors use it. #kidlitchat
2:07 am S_J_Bennett: RT @mbrockenbrough: @gregpincus The key is to know the rules, then break them when they serve your voice and character. #kidlitchat
2:07 am skodobah: Spelling tests were my favorite thing in school. Besides ditching. #kidlitchat
2:07 am KarenCollum: @skodobah Yep. Copy & paste your manuscript and press the button. Voila! Wordle cloud of your very own :) #kidlitchat
2:07 am KatApel: I think there’s a perfect word for every situation – and it’s our job as writers to find the BEST word. #kidlitchat
2:07 am SolomonInkwell: @skodobah – Good evening to ya! #kidlitchat
2:07 am FictionNotes: @egmontgal isn’t Shiloh in present? Not my fave, but sometimes it works. #kidlitchat
2:07 am emilyreads: @planetalvina @gregpincus @EgmostGal But I WILL live in FUTURE tense! #kidlitchat #sadtrombonenoise
2:07 am TessDickenson: @planetalvina All dialects … or particular ones? #kidlitchat
2:07 am 2KoP: @MaryCalhounBrow I’m a “that” zapper. #kidlitchat
2:07 am MaryCalhounBrow: @EgmontGal Once I tried to write a book in both present and past tense. Editor not likey. #kidlitchat
2:07 am skodobah: @KrisYankee I’m with you and Elizabeth. Makes me crazy. #kidlitchat
2:07 am gregpincus: Y’all… listen to @mbrockenbrough – she’s the founder of National Grammar Day! She must know. #kidlitchat
2:07 am skodobah: @KarenCollum Thank you for turning me on to that. #kidlitchat
2:08 am lkstrohecker: Haha, kind of like the one in my last tweet! #kidlitchat #irony
2:08 am emilytastic: @KrisYankee I love writing present tense! Though I have written manuscripts in past tense, too. #kidlitchat
2:08 am kcclyburn: Hey hey, what’s the topic today? #kidlitchat
2:08 am KarenCollum: RT @KatApel: I think theres a perfect word for every situation – and its our job as writers to find the BEST word. #kidlitchat
2:08 am skodobah: @SolomonInkwell Ready to dance? #kidlitchat
2:08 am 2KoP: RT @KatApel: I think there’s a perfect word for every situation – and it’s our job as writers to find the BEST word. #kidlitchat
2:08 am adamselzer: I almost always use contractions (can’t, don’t, etc). Practically everyone uses them in regular speech. #kidlitchat
2:08 am PatEsden: I spent an entire day searching for and tinkering with the various forms of “look” in my WIP #kidlitchat
2:08 am susanjsteward: I’m not sure about writers who would admit to having no skill in grammar OR rhythm. Yikes. Story is terribly important,but . . . #kidlitchat
2:08 am EgmontGal: Present tense works a lot. See the Hunger Games. Candor. Food, Girls etc etc #kidlitchat
2:08 am CarolTanzman: but present tense can make such a difference. it gives an immediacy that some stories need. #kidlitchat
2:08 am skodobah: At the end of the day, I use slang and all kinds of bad grammar cause my brain is out of words. #kidlitchat
2:08 am planetalvina: @TessDickenson Pretty much any. But if the story is good enough, I’ll forget about it, so that’s key. #kidlitchat
2:08 am lyonmartin: I that all over too RT @MaryCalhounBrow: One of my editors eliminated a pile of “that” in my last manuscript. #kidlitchat
2:08 am clarkwriter: So, I use the word “so” far too often. SO annoying. #kidlitchat
2:09 am SolomonInkwell: @skodobah – Of course! Put on your red shoes and dance the blues… #kidlitchat
2:09 am bonnieadamson: Once you notice any grammatical device too much (like opening participial phrases), it pull syou out of the story. #kidlitchat
2:09 am susanjsteward: If you lack basic skills and style, who is going to want to read that story? #kidlitchat
2:09 am KrisYankee: @emilytastic I have a hard time writing synopses cuz they have to b in present. I do it, but it’s like drinking straight tequila #kidlitchat
2:09 am 2KoP: Do you all use onelook.com and rhymezone.com. Two of my favorite tools. #kidlitchat
2:09 am DrlemonWCGGG: Word choice is a problem… A big, large, gigantic, giant, huge, massive problem. #kidlitchat
2:09 am EgmontGal: I have no prejudice against present tense. I didn’t notice it till Ann slammed Egmont books shut saying “oh, present tense!” #kidlitchat
2:09 am JennBailey: @planetalvina I think that’s the main reasons kids don’t read Huckleberry Finn anymore. Great story but kids have tough time #kidlitchat
2:09 am KarenCollum: @skodobah You’re welcome :) Plugged in my 81K manuscript the other day and instantly could see which char had most page time. #kidlitchat
2:09 am gregpincus: @emilyreads @planetalvina @egmontgal I am going to live in the conditional tense. Or I have a condition. It’s unclear #kidlitchat
2:09 am MaryCalhounBrow: @2KoP I called her my “that exterminator” when the book was published. Pesky “thats” #kidlitchat
2:09 am S_J_Bennett: @CarolTanzman I’ve never written in present tense, but after reading Suzanne Collins I’d love to try. #kidlitchat
2:09 am skodobah: @SolomonInkwell OMG! Bowie to you too. #kidlitchat
2:09 am KatApel: @adamselzer Agree about contractions. That’s where the rhythm comes into play. Sometimes it’s better without. Many times not. #kidlitchat
2:09 am lkstrohecker: RT @mbrockenbrough: Grammar basics can impede story, whether you don’t know them or follow slavishly. #kidlitchat
2:09 am KrisYankee: @2KoP I use onelook.com A LOT! #kidlitchat
2:10 am skodobah: @KarenCollum Every tool helps when it comes to checking your manu. #kidlitchat
2:10 am 2KoP: @KrisYankee Is that true that all synopses must be in present tense? #kidlitchat
2:10 am EgmontGal: @JennBailey when you say kids, do you mean teens don’t read Huck finn? I remember getting used to dialect in Lassie Come home. #kidlitchat
2:10 am Marty_Chan: @planetalvina Agreed. Often reminds me of a bad actor trying to create a character with an accent. #kidlitchat
2:10 am adamselzer: I did present tense once – it made sense for the character not to have hindsight. Also: everyone else was doing it. #kidlitchat
2:10 am KarenCollum: Got a great tip from a writing teacher the other day. To write convincing Russian, remove ‘the’. #kidlitchat
2:10 am KrisYankee: @gregpincus Don’t all writers have a condition? Hee hee… #kidlitchat
2:10 am patricemichelle: Writing present tense takes getting used to but some stories do seem to demand it…re: the immediacy #kidlitchat
2:10 am mbrockenbrough: It’s not grammar per se, but Jane Austen used more Latin to show smart/pompous characters, and less for the emotional/idiotic. #kidlitchat
2:11 am KarenCollum: Reading aloud is still my fav way of working out what works and what doesn’t. Getting someone else to read aloud is even better. #kidlitchat
2:11 am skodobah: @2KoP I’ve always heard that present tense is the thing for synopses. #kidlitchat
2:11 am SolomonInkwell: When I write my characters voice, I true to stay loose and informal (depending on the character). My narrative is pretty formal #kidlitchat
2:11 am emilytastic: @EgmontGal I have a hard time with Huck Finn, and I had to listen to it on tape when I read it in high school. #kidlitchat
2:11 am MardouLedger: Oh my YES. RT @DrlemonWCGGG: Word choice is a problem… A big, large, gigantic, giant, huge, massive problem. #kidlitchat
2:11 am CarolTanzman: @sjbennet I started my current ms. in past but it lacked a little punch. as soon as I tried present–it jumped at. #kidlitchat
2:11 am JEMACLEOD: Didn’t Stephen King slam thesaurasus use in ON WRITING? #kidlitchat
2:11 am KrisYankee: @2KoP My agent requests that they are in present. Or at least that’s what she’s told me to do. So I don’t really know. #kidlitchat
2:11 am 2KoP: @KrisYankee Love the search tools at onelook. For a word w/ lots of b’s, search b*b*b*b*. So cool. #kidlitchat
2:11 am kcclyburn: I’ve used present tense before, but it’s a bit tricky to do. It easy to get mixed up doing it as well. #kidlitchat
2:11 am mbrockenbrough: That’s one bit of Jane Austen’s genius (and I try to rip this notion off all the time, with significantly less success). #kidlitchat
2:11 am DrlemonWCGGG: “Use a thesaurus!”, the teachers tell us. Honestly, it just makes it harder. #kidlitchat
2:11 am MaryCalhounBrow: I love to read a southern dialect. #kidlitchat
2:11 am planetalvina: Writing dialogue with “too correct” grammar can be distracting, too. #kidlitchat
2:11 am EgmontGal: @emilytastic I have never read to the end of Huck Finn, but I saw Big River #kidlitchat
2:11 am JennBailey: @EgmontGal My kids. 13 and younger. Just had trouble with it but when I read it no problem, likewise with Wee Free Men #kidlitchat
2:11 am gregpincus: LOL RT @DrlemonWCGGG: Word choice is a problem… A big, large, gigantic, giant, huge, massive problem. #kidlitchat
2:12 am FictionNotes: HOW you say it is everything. #kidlitchat
2:12 am emilytastic: Whether I write in past or present tense depends entirely on my characters’ voice and the tone of the story. #kidlitchat
2:12 am patricemichelle: Synopsis are written in present tense. Never understood why that rule though (esp if book is in past tense). #kidlitchat
2:12 am hallietibbetts: I often wish old favorites had been more careful with slang that doesn’t bring a sense of time/place; can date books so quickly. #kidlitchat
2:12 am JEMACLEOD: @skodobah I like to use the computer guy to read back to me. Voice programs that read your text. Forget the name of it #kidlitchat
2:12 am kcclyburn: I’ve also had issues switching BACK to past tense after particularly long writing sessions using the present tense. #kidlitchat
2:12 am EgmontUSA: This is also where I make the argument against slang, unless absolutely necessary. It can date a book, or be totally off. #kidlitchat
2:12 am KatApel: @KarenCollum Agree – reading aloud. But also need ‘fresh’ readers, who can read unseen/unpractised. Does it roll/fit. #kidlitchat
2:12 am KarenCollum: I grew up in the whole language era of teaching in the early 80s. Didn’t get formal grammar training. #kidlitchat
2:12 am paulgreci: RT @planetalvina: Writing dialogue with “too correct” grammar can be distracting, too. #kidlitchat
2:12 am 2KoP: @SolomonInkwell Agreed. Your character needs a voice distinct from 3rd person narrator. #kidlitchat
2:12 am marcie8: Yes, I think so RT @KrisYankee: @gregpincus Don’t all writers have a condition? Hee hee… #kidlitchat
2:12 am skodobah: @JEMACLEOD Robots-R-Us? #kidlitchat
2:12 am lisabrowndraws: But it doesn’t have to rhyme! It’s a pet peeve of mine. RT @DeborahFreedmanrhythm is key… #kidlitchat
2:12 am KarenCollum: I have the ‘feel’ for what sounds right but not the technical knowledge of terms etc. Slowly educating myself… #kidlitchat
2:12 am S_J_Bennett: @JEMACLEOD What voice program do you use? #kidlitchat
2:13 am MaryCalhounBrow: @JEMACLEOD funny. I’m re-reading On Writing now. He suggests you write the first word, not the one u search for. #kidlitchat
2:13 am shikokusue: Are we talking about words or grammar? Okay to use foreign words in y/a? My wip is set in Japan.#kidlitchat
2:13 am TheAsianAngel: I think rhythm can have an immense impact on even YA if it doesn’t suit the style of the story. #kidlitchat
2:13 am skodobah: @kcclyburn Kind of like trying to sing alto and switching to soprano cause the gal next to you is doing it. #kidlitchat
2:13 am patricemichelle: @MaryCalhounBrow Ha! Me too! Especially loved the Southernisms in Beautiful Creatures. #kidlitchat
2:13 am gregpincus: Well, isn’t “text talk” just another form of dialect? Kids don’t seem to have a problem with that…. #kidlitchat
2:13 am kcclyburn: A thesaurus is a gateway to purple prose, methinks… #kidlitchat
2:13 am adamselzer: Didja know there are still people who insist that “humungous” is not a “real” word. What a buncha goons they must be. #kidlitchat
2:13 am planetalvina: @patricemichelle Ah, true, and sometimes present tense novels can sound like synopses, which is a bad thing. #kidlitchat
2:13 am KatApel: @JennBailey I have an avid reader, but he finds it very hard to get into those classics. Is learning to love them – hard going. #kidlitchat
2:13 am KarenCollum: RT @JEMACLEOD: @skodobah I like to use the computer guy to read back to me. Voice programs that read your text. <<Great idea! #kidlitchat
2:13 am lisabrowndraws: Important to realize that rhythm does not always = rhyme. That pbs can still be poetic w/out rhyme. See Goodnight Moon #kidlitchat
2:13 am susanjsteward: #kidlitchat @MaryCalhounBrow Living in the south, reading an overdone southern accent can really annoy me sometimes.
2:13 am SolomonInkwell: TRUE – RT @gregpincus: Well, isnt “text talk” just another form of dialect? Kids dont seem to have a problem with that…. #kidlitchat
2:13 am KrisYankee: @EgmontUSA I try to be careful even with devices/songs I use in my writing. Want the story to be timeless. Slang doesn’t help #kidlitchat
2:14 am DrlemonWCGGG: “Use a thesaurus!” they tell us. It just makes it harder, knowing all the words you can use.#kidlitchat
2:14 am MaryCalhounBrow: @mbrockenbrough Ahhh. Jane Austen. My fav. #kidlitchat
2:14 am JEMACLEOD: @S_J_Bennett Let me look…. #kidlitchat
2:14 am TheAsianAngel: @JEMACLEOD Hehe! There’s something out there for everyone! #kidlitchat
2:14 am thebookbarr: Hi everyone, so happy to join #kidlitchat again!
2:14 am PatEsden: I like dialect, but then again I am a fan of Terry Pratchett #kidlitchat
2:14 am lisabrowndraws: HA!RT @gregpincus: Rhythm is tough. I recall hearing someone unable to read Fox in Sox with rhythm. #kidlitchat
2:14 am 2KoP: @kcclyburn Really? I think a good thesaurus can come in handy now and again, as long as you don’t over use it. #kidlitchat
2:14 am EgmontGal: @adamselzer what about “ginormous” Surely that is in the lexicon by now? #kidlitchat
2:14 am EgmontUSA: @gregpincus But it dates a novel so quickly! Will teens even be using the same slang 6 months from now. #kidlitchat
2:14 am KatApel: @adamselzer Fatabulous is though – right? And Fantasticus! ?? #kidlitchat
2:14 am JennBailey: @KatApel Same with Treasure Island. Such a great story but pretty darn hard for the modern middle school kid #kidlitchat
2:14 am skodobah: @KrisYankee I’m always catching song names and things that date a story w/beta manuscripts. #kidlitchat
2:15 am S_J_Bennett: @thebookbarr Welcome! #kidlitchat
2:15 am MaryCalhounBrow: @patricemichelle I’ve been doing some research for a new project and found web sites of southern speak. Hilarious #kidlitchat
2:15 am emilytastic: @KrisYankee @EgmontUSA YES. I never reference a band/TV show unless it’s made up or ‘vetted in.’ And I try to avoid fashion. #kidlitchat
2:15 am patricemichelle: But some books, no matter the slang seem timeless or the slang just fits the time? Example: The Outsiders. #kidlitchat
2:15 am skodobah: I mean, for goodness sakes don’t mention Flashdance in your manuscript. WINK. #kidlitchat
2:15 am KarenCollum: I prefer reading fantastic word choices & placement that convey dialect rather than fiddling too much with actual words. #kidlitchat
2:15 am thebookbarr: Never thought it that way: RT @mbrockenbrough Jane Austen used Latin to show smart/pompous characters, less 4 emotional/idiotic. #kidlitchat
2:15 am skodobah: Cusswords are timeless. #kidlitchat
2:15 am emilytastic: @EgmontGal @adamselzer I was just going to say ginormous had to be next. #kidlitchat
2:15 am JEMACLEOD: http://www.naturalreaders.com/ Free download #kidlitchat
2:15 am shikokusue: I really dislike speech by multiculti characters rendered in broken English. #kidlitchat
2:15 am adamselzer: @EgmontGal “Ginormous?” I should certainly think so. Easily-understood portmanteau that appeared on “Recess” 10+ years ago. #kidlitchat
2:16 am MaryCalhounBrow: @susanjsteward My sister lives in Alabama. She gets annoyed as well. #kidlitchat
2:16 am DeborahFreedman: @lisabrowndraws I agree about rhyming pbs; tell the story first! Then ask, does this really need to be in verse? #kidlitchat
2:16 am TheAsianAngel: Present tense always feels Choose Your Own Adventure-ish to me. #kidlitchat
2:16 am KatApel: @JennBailey Yep. All thse classics. But he’s getting into the swing now. Some older movies helped… #kidlitchat
2:16 am kcclyburn: @2KoP In times of need they’re great. But only in times of need. #kidlitchat
2:16 am KrisYankee: Agreed! But can’t use too many in MG. RT @skodobah: Cusswords are timeless. #kidlitchat
2:16 am jrroper: I think if you know your character well enough and have a tight enough POV the words will be the right ones #kidlitchat
2:16 am JessicaLeader: @emilytastic and making up names for tv shows, band names and movie hotties is the funnest part of writing! #kidlitchat
2:16 am kcclyburn: @skodobah Fuckin’ eh. #kidlitchat
2:16 am SolomonInkwell: Slang: I think it depends. Some work needs to be locked into a date/year in time. If the story is good, it’s still timeless. #kidlitchat
2:16 am thebookbarr: @S_J_Bennett Thanks for the welcome! #kidlitchat
2:16 am clarkwriter: @skodobah What a feeling. #kidlitchat
2:16 am himissjulie: every group of kids has their own slang. can’t the kids in your book have their own, as well? #kidlitchat
2:16 am skodobah: @JEMACLEOD Cool beans! Pardon the slang. #kidlitchat
2:16 am MRDunn12: Just got my “grammar critique” back today…I’m horrible! Thankfully I have people who can fix me. #kidlitchat
2:16 am 2KoP: @PatEsden I think dialect is tough to pull off. Use it with discretion, just enough to let your reader hear it and taste it. #kidlitchat
2:16 am 2KoP: #kidlitchat
2:16 am AudryT: I’m of the camp for never mentioning other people’s books in your books. Invites readers to compare the two. #kidlitchat
2:16 am JEMACLEOD: @S_J_Bennett Just posted the link… #kidlitchat
2:16 am skodobah: @kcclyburn LOL! There ya go! #kidlitchat
2:16 am marybrebner: @skodobah LOL–so true. Just wrote up a kid for saying “F*#k off” to classmate. Same slang there. Just another year. #kidlitchat
2:17 am EngridE1: Hi everyone! (((waving))) Sorry I can’t stay tonight & really wanted to read opinions about this, will read thru after. Grt Nte! #kidlitchat
2:17 am EKokie: Sorry I’m late – chatting about mechanics I see… #kidlitchat
2:17 am KarenCollum: @skodobah See, I think a lot of authors use swearing/cussing as a lazy way out. Just my opinion :) #kidlitchat
2:17 am skodobah: @clarkwriter THere’s an underground Flashdance movement on kidlitchat. #kidlitchat
2:17 am marcie8: True LOL RT @skodobah: Cusswords are timeless. #kidlitchat
2:17 am emilytastic: @JessicaLeader YES! Although it sucks when you make up a band name and then go to Google and find out it’s real :( #kidlitchat
2:17 am paulgreci: A tiny bit of slang or dialect can go a long way. Less is often more. #kidlitchat
2:17 am lisabrowndraws: @emilytastic Agree. Brand names and bands feels like cheating & will get dated. Make them up yourself, & they will be timeless. #kidlitchat
2:17 am EgmontUSA: @shikokusue I normally do too, but just finished a ms where it worked effectively. There’s an exception to every rule, I guess. #kidlitchat
2:17 am AudryT: Also, I’m of the camp of not mentioning brand names (as brand names change or die), bands (retire or break up) or movies. #kidlitchat
2:17 am himissjulie: just recently learned some chicago kids are using “thirsty” to describe adults who are disciplining them. “She’s thirsty!” #kidlitchat
2:17 am emilyreads: @emilytastic @EgmontGal @adamselzer. Ginormous must be a word. I use it eleventy billion times a day. #kidlitchat
2:17 am gregpincus: @EgmontUSA It can date a novel, sure. But so? That can prevent it from being timeless… but not from being a big success. #kidlitchat
2:17 am KrisYankee: @skodobah @clarkwriter..Warning – earworm!! #kidlitchat
2:17 am S_J_Bennett: @JEMACLEOD Thanks so much! #kidlitchat
2:17 am PatEsden: Word choice is pretty much determined by the characters and setting, right? #kidlitchat
2:17 am skodobah: @marybrebner Oh goodness! #kidlitchat
2:17 am patricemichelle: @MaryCalhounBrow I spent HOURS on a site & all I wanted was ONE saying, but being a Southern girl, I just stayed and snickered. #kidlitchat
2:17 am TrinityFaegen: I find I can’t read much when I’m heavy into a project. My voice tends to change. So I marathon read between projects. #kidlitchat
2:17 am adamselzer: I’m gradually coming to terms with “funnest.” I know that it’s incorrect, but I lack a valid reason that it SHOULD be. #kidlitchat
2:17 am amyknichols: @JessicaLeader I agree. Just finished Going Bovine by Libba Bray. She made up names of songs, tv shows, etc. really well, IMO. #kidlitchat
2:17 am dorothiar: @JEMACLEOD Have you used this program? It looks really neat. #kidlitchat
2:17 am yachicka: I thought ‘ginormous’ started with ELF – as in: these toilets are… #kidlitchat
2:17 am emilytastic: @AudryT One of my characters is a big book nerd, and she talks about Judy Blume and Francesca Lia Block. But they’re SO UP THERE #kidlitchat
2:17 am skodobah: This is not your father’s cussword. #kidlitchat
2:17 am MaryCalhounBrow: @skodobah I think cuss words are overused. I’m reading Going Bovine, and I could really use a whole lot less f-word #kidlitchat
2:18 am 2KoP: If it rings true/consistent.RT @himissjulie: every group of kids has their own slang. can’t your book have their own? #kidlitchat
2:18 am clarkwriter: @skodobah I should have worn my sweatshirt inside out DAMN. #kidlitchat
2:18 am JessicaLeader: @emilytastic No way re: made-up band names are real! Such as? (Worries about libel.) And now back to actual topic… #kidlitchat
2:18 am lilrongal: But aren’t some brands timeless? Like Coke, for example? #kidlitchat
2:18 am marybrebner: @himissjulie Interesting choice of verb. Kinda doesn’t make sense to me (but what do I know, I’m “old”!) #kidlitchat
2:18 am JEMACLEOD: @S_J_Bennett No prob. It’s awesome for final edits… #kidlitchat
2:18 am KatApel: @DeborahFreedman Sometimes rhyming PBs write themselves. And the rhythm/rhyme of the story chooses the best words for you. #kidlitchat
2:18 am lisabrowndraws: Yes! RT @JessicaLeader: @emilytastic making up names for tv shows, band names and movie hotties is the funnest part of writing! #kidlitchat
2:18 am planetalvina: I think brand names and bands and stuff depends on the book. What would Gossip Girl have been without them? #kidlitchat
2:18 am skodobah: @KarenCollum Too many f-bombs turns me off in a story. Placed well, and they become useful. #kidlitchat
2:18 am gregpincus: @himissjulie Clockwork Orange makes up its own slanguage. Is that more timeless, I wonder? Or only if it’s a success. #kidlitchat
2:18 am jrroper: Profanity only has effect if used sparingly. Too much of anything weakens a story. #kidlitchat
2:18 am patricemichelle: @planetalvina Yep. I think it takes time for the brain to ‘engage’ in a present tense novel, once that happens it reads great. #kidlitchat
2:18 am skodobah: @clarkwriter Remember for next week, kay? #kidlitchat
2:18 am KrisYankee: @MaryCalhounBrow Tried to read Going Bovine. Couldn’t get into it. Not sure why. #kidlitchat
2:18 am JEMACLEOD: @MaryCalhounBrow I think cuss words are ok if they are in character. That’s just me. :) #kidlitchat
2:19 am S_J_Bennett: @yachicka Haha, so many fantastic words in Elf! #kidlitchat
2:19 am skodobah: @jrroper Well hey there! #kidlitchat
2:19 am KatApel: @KarenCollum Agree. I think swearing grabs with shock value. But doesn’t necessarily add to the story. #kidlitchat
2:19 am MaryCalhounBrow: @TheAsianAngel Have you seen those cool new choose your own ending Youtube videos? Love them. #kidlitchat
2:19 am timkeetonwriter: @adamselzer Personally, I like the word “ginormous” (a la “Elf”). #kidlitchat
2:19 am susanjsteward: #kidlitchat @himissjulie. My husband told me tonight that his teen students are using “Gucci”!
2:19 am lisabrowndraws: And then readers will start using that slang as their own!RT @himissjulie: can’t the kids in your book have their own, as well? #kidlitchat
2:19 am kcclyburn: @MaryCalhounBrow Meh, I don’t know. I thought Going Bovine dodged a lot of curse words for the most part, until later n the plot #kidlitchat
2:19 am JEMACLEOD: @dorothiar I use it all the time! #kidlitchat
2:19 am thebookbarr: I spent a day working the word Lederhosen into my non-German manuscript. Was that wrong?! #kidlitchat
2:19 am patricemichelle: @jrroper Agreed. I think the profanity “less is more” is true of most novels. #kidlitchat
2:19 am paulgreci: If words or phrases or brand names will date a novel…how important are they to the story. If needed, then keep, but if not? #kidlitchat
2:19 am skodobah: @susanjsteward Meaning that Gucci is posh? Fancy? #kidlitchat
2:20 am adamselzer: Slang, brands, etc are fine if they’re not your sole means of “connecting to today’s youth.” THAT’s when it gets annoying. #kidlitchat
2:20 am EgmontUSA: @gregpincus But if the slang’s already out of fashion by the time it hits bookshelves, who’s going to read to make it a big hit? #kidlitchat
2:20 am ShellieBr: I love coming up with nonsensical cuss words! #kidlitchat
2:20 am EKokie: Isn’t organic the end all be all. IE whether it’s language, curses, slang, dialect, grammar, etc.- isn’t goal true to character? #kidlitchat
2:20 am kcclyburn: @jrroper But then again, if we’re righting for teens, and teens curse, does it weaken it or make it seem more realistic? #kidlitchat
2:20 am marcie8: Some are needed like Zamboni RT @AudryT: Also, I’m of the camp of not mentioning brand names (as brand names change or die)#kidlitchat
2:20 am skodobah: Tasteful profanity. #kidlitchat
2:20 am 2KoP: RT @thebookbarr: I spent a day working the word Lederhosen into my non-German manuscript. Was that wrong?! #kidlitchat
2:20 am lisabrowndraws: Sure, w/in reason. But don’t just use a brand for shorthand. Says me. RT @lilrongal: But aren’t some brands timeless? #kidlitchat
2:20 am adamselzer: I’m waiting to hear one of my fake slang terms in the wild. It has not happened yet. I am really bummed. #kidlitchat
2:20 am jrroper: @skodobah nice to know we f&#%@&ng agree on something. #kidlitchat
2:20 am marybrebner: @thebookbarr Nope. Lederhosen is fun to say and should be included in more stories. #kidlitchat
2:20 am himissjulie: @lisabrowndraws ah, the circle of slang!! #kidlitchat
2:20 am CarolTanzman: depends on who was wearing the lederhosen #kidlitchat
2:20 am planetalvina: I agree with using profanity sparingly. But it’s sometimes necessary for voice and effect. #kidlitchat
2:20 am skodobah: Ah crumbcakes… need to go put something in the oven. BRB #kidlitchat
2:20 am KarenCollum: I think there’s a misconception that ALL kids swear. That’s simply not the case. The story needs to come first. Always. #kidlitchat
2:20 am pussreboots: @KatApel A little swearing goes a long way. Too much and it just gets in the way of plot and characterization. #kidlitchat
2:20 am kcclyburn: @jrroper To adults it may be too much. To kids, unless it’s super excessive, probably not. Eye of the beholder and whatnot… #kidlitchat
2:20 am AudryT: A 13 yr old hasn’t read the books we have, doesn’t know the authors we know. Fake for 13 yr chara to love what u loved ages ago. #kidlitchat
2:20 am emilytastic: @KatApel Some characters swear. Others don’t. Just like real teens. I think an author has to figure it out & be true to it. #kidlitchat
2:20 am EgmontUSA: @gregpincus I admit it can have it’s place, but I still think it’s wiser to avoid, and if you want slang, make up your own. #kidlitchat
2:20 am gregpincus: @EgmontUSA Well, you simply don’t use THAT slang :-) But something like TTYL or TTFN has done okay, yes? #kidlitchat
2:21 am JennBailey: My family makes up many words. Schniggs, Bowfees, Bahbass, etc. We all know what they mean and friends catch on from context. #kidlitchat
2:21 am emilyreads: @thebookbarr There can never be enough lederhosen in the world. #kidlitchat
2:21 am KarenCollum: RT @ShellieBr: I love coming up with nonsensical cuss words! <<”The Maze Runner” did that REALLY well. #kidlitchat
2:21 am 2KoP: As teens, my friends and I relished in making up our own words, slang and meanings. Great for confounding parents. #kidlitchat
2:21 am ShellieBr: The real question is how do you write a timelessly hip novel? #kidlitchat
2:21 am JEMACLEOD: @adamselzer Best fake slang word? #kidlitchat
2:21 am SolomonInkwell: RT @skodobah: Tasteful profanity. – - All my profanity is tasteful…dammit. #kidlitchat
2:21 am EgmontUSA: Indeed. RT @planetalvina: I agree with using profanity sparingly. But its sometimes necessary for voice and effect. #kidlitchat
2:21 am patricemichelle: I love it when fake slang takes off. I think that’s great. #kidlitchat
2:21 am KatApel: RT @KarenCollum: I think theres a misconception that ALL kids swear. Thats simply not the case. The story needs to come first… #kidlitchat
2:21 am jrroper: @kcclyburn The teens in my creative writing group get turned off by too much. Once or a few times…okay. #kidlitchat
2:21 am kcclyburn: @adamselzer If Diablo Cody’s fake euphemisms can’t catch on in an Oscar award winning movie, I don’t whose can. #kidlitchat
2:21 am lisabrowndraws: That’s so very. Remember “Heathers”?RT @himissjulie: “She’s thirsty!” #kidlitchat
2:22 am laurielyoung: Couldn’t get home in time–too hard to follow on phone. I’ll lurk for awhile, but will have to catch up with the transcript. :o #kidlitchat
2:22 am marcie8: RT @jrroper: Profanity only has effect if used sparingly. Too much of anything weakens a story. #kidlitchat
2:22 am planetalvina: I didn’t swear until way into my twenties. Still don’t now, much. When I was a kid I’d sometimes say “fluck,” though. #kidlitchat
2:22 am mrswritebrain: RT @MaryCalhounBrow: @mbrockenbrough Ahhh. Jane Austen. My fav. She gave less intelligent chars bad grammar. (Lucy Steele) #kidlitchat
2:22 am emilytastic: @KarenCollum See, to me it read like the author had used real swear words, and the editor made him change to fake ones. #kidlitchat
2:22 am TheAsianAngel: Oooh. No, I haven’t! RT @MaryCalhounBrow: @TheAsianAngel Have you seen those cool new choose your own ending Youtube videos? #kidlitchat
2:22 am AudryT: I have 2 narrators. One mixes timeless curses with curses of her own invention. The other is too shy for any cussing. Character. #kidlitchat
2:23 am lisabrowndraws: Although I gotta admit for my Civil War YA I stole expressions right from old journals. #kidlitchat
2:23 am himissjulie: @susanjsteward I can dig that! #kidlitchat
2:23 am 2KoP: I think reading profanity is more embarrassing to kids than saying it. #kidlitchat
2:23 am marcie8: RT @ShellieBr: I love coming up with nonsensical cuss words! #kidlitchat
2:23 am planetalvina: I also liked “What’s your damage” from Heathers. #kidlitchat
2:23 am gregpincus: So, do grammar rules change when you’re writing dialog? #kidlitchat
2:23 am KatApel: @KatApel It’s hard to get the gist of the story if you’re omitting swear words. My thoughts. #kidlitchat
2:23 am eventRobot: @KrisYankee Drink a beer and stay here! #kidlitchat
2:23 am KarenCollum: @emilytastic OK. Interesting :) I thought it fitted with the whole alternate reality thing… #kidlitchat
2:23 am shikokusue: Can’t young readers connect with a book set specifically in recent history?? One cd use slang/pop references to cue the ’80s. #kidlitchat
2:23 am marcie8: RT @adamselzer: I’m waiting to hear one of my fake slang terms in the wild. It has not happened yet. I am really bummed. #kidlitchat
2:23 am himissjulie: @lisabrowndraws Of course I do! “What’s your damage?” #kidlitchat
2:24 am MaryCalhounBrow: @marybrebner Lederhosen, I must agree. Makes me happy just to type it. #kidlitchat
2:24 am thebookbarr: I think too many slang/curse words often feel forced. Knowing when/where to place it is probably a sign of a edit. #kidlitchat
2:24 am dawnbonnevie: @JennBailey #kidlitchat my 8yo makes up words when we least expect. This week Dad is Dasheo.
2:24 am KrisYankee: @gregpincus I think they do. People don’t speak correctly. #kidlitchat
2:24 am JennBailey: @jrroper I agree. You loose the power and the shock. They should be well placed F-bombs. Hence the term. #kidlitchat
2:24 am lauramanivong: I had challenge of coming up with cuss words that didn’t sound too American, as my characters are Laotian. A-hole doesn’t work! #kidlitchat
2:24 am CarolTanzman: @gregpincus. yes. rules change because speech is not correct grammar. #kidlitchat
2:24 am dorothiar: RT @2KoP: ..profanity is more embarrassing to kids than saying it. Is “damn” considered a cuss word for 10 year old characters? #kidlitchat
2:24 am SolomonInkwell: RT @gregpincus: So, do grammar rules change when youre writing dialog? – OH YES…very less formal and sometimes improper… #kidlitchat
2:24 am planetalvina: @gregpincus When I’m editing, I’m more forgiving about grammar when it’s dialogue. So, yes. #kidlitchat
2:24 am KatApel: @gregpincus Definitely. Dialogue builds character – and we often break rules of grammar in speech. #kidlitchat
2:24 am 2KoP: @gregpincus I think grammar does change significantly in dialogue, and it should. #kidlitchat
2:24 am Linamoon: @planetalvina What’s your major glitch? From Reality Bites. #kidlitchat
2:24 am emilytastic: @AudryT Exactly. I like to count the swearwords in my ms’s. And so far, every character has a vastly different vocabulary. WIN! #kidlitchat
2:24 am kcclyburn: @gregpincus In terms of dialogue, yes. People don’t speak like Data from Star Trek: TNG. #kidlitchat
2:24 am emilyreads: I used to swear a lot as a college student, then stopped @ work and once kids got learned to repeat. Now I swear for catharsis. #kidlitchat
2:25 am susanjsteward: Any other strictly MG writers here? I’m not much for reading or writing with cursing. Guess I write for the kind of kid I was #kidlitchat
2:25 am KarenCollum: There are so many timeless experiences that kids go through that we don’t need to hook into ‘trend’ things to tell stories. #kidlitchat
2:25 am ShellieBr: My day job is a nanny, so my cuss word of choise is sugarpops. The kids tell me I have to swear better!#kidlitchat
2:25 am mgbuehrlen: RT @gregpincus: So, do grammar rules change when youre writing dialog?<< Sometimes, if the character doesn’t use correct grammar #kidlitchat
2:25 am 2KoP: What about bad grammar used by a narrator in #kidlit. Seems totally wrong to me. #kidlitchat
2:25 am paulgreci: @gregpincus More run-on sentences and sentence fragments in dialog, and thoughts too in my writing. #kidlitchat
2:25 am JennBailey: @dawnbonnevie Love it! #kidlitchat
2:25 am emilytastic: @gregpincus Absolutely. The grammar used in dialogue should reflect the way the character would speak. #kidlitchat
2:25 am SolomonInkwell: LOL – RT @kcclyburn: @gregpincus In terms of dialogue, yes. People dont speak like Data from Star Trek: TNG. #kidlitchat
2:25 am MyraMcEntire: Read a book that was first in a series. Full of brand names and slang. Didn’t read book two. Much telling, little showing. #kidlitchat
2:25 am BenDawe: Huckleberry Finn’s adapted grammar seems to be part of his magic. #kidlitchat
2:25 am MardouLedger: @shikokusue I have the same question! My story is set in the mid-90s. #kidlitchat
2:25 am kcclyburn: @susanjsteward I remember there were days where I wouldn’t dare utter a curse word. Sometimes I miss those days… #kidlitchat
2:25 am MaryCalhounBrow: The husband is making me go to bed. I’ll NEVER get to stay start to finish. Grumble. #kidlitchat
2:25 am mrswritebrain: siRT @JessicaLeader: @emilytastic and making up names for tv shows, band names and movie hotties is the funnest part of writing! #kidlitchat
2:26 am EgmontUSA: @susanjsteward I don’t think cursing belongs in middle grade. #kidlitchat
2:26 am kjerstinwittwer: In “An Abundance of Katherines” by John Green the protagonist & his friend use “fugging” in homage to Norman Mailer. FUN. #kidlitchat
2:26 am JEMACLEOD: @ShellieBr Oh Sugarpops. That has potential… #kidlitchat
2:26 am FictionNotes: RT @susanjsteward: Any other strictly MG writers here? I’m not much for reading or writing with cursing. Guess I write for the kind of kid I was #kidlitchat
2:26 am EKokie: @shikokusue Sure. But “dated” language can sometimes make a book feel inauthentic, hurt your credability w/reader. #kidlitchat
2:26 am jrroper: @gregpincus Dialogue is all about the emotion connected to the words. Use grammar however u need to. #kidlitchat
2:26 am lisabrowndraws: If it means to be clearly an historical snapshot. Not cause that’s what we remember! RT @shikokusue: slang/pop to cue the ’80s. #kidlitchat
2:26 am patricemichelle: @gregpincus I feel dialogue is the exception. The character should speak like a person really would…not in complete sentences. #kidlitchat
2:26 am emilytastic: @2KoP I don’t think it’s wrong. I can think of some examples where it’s EXCESSIVE, but characters should talk like real people. #kidlitchat
2:26 am marcie8: I think anything goes as long as it feels right for the character RT @gregpincus: do grammar rules change for dialog? #kidlitchat
2:26 am KarenCollum: @susanjsteward I write PBs/MG – no swearing in mine either :) Just don’t think it’s necessary. Only ONE aspect of a character… #kidlitchat
2:26 am susanjsteward: @planetalvina Good to hear (about grammar in dialogue). Also, you were a braver kid than mevwith fluck! #kidlitchat
2:26 am mgbuehrlen: Had someone once edit the bad grammar in my character’s dialog. *headslap* #kidlitchat
2:26 am himissjulie: @Linamoon which is a variation of “What’s your major malfunction?” from Full Metal Jacket #kidlitchat
2:26 am pussreboots: @2KoP Sometimes it can work. I liked how it was done in Dead Fathers Club. #kidlit #kidlitchat
2:26 am adamselzer: Particularly bad grammar by a narrator could get annoying in a real hurry. So could impeccable grammar. #kidlitchat
2:26 am MardouLedger: As far as cursing goes, my character is a wee bit of a goody (except for the sex) so she doesn’t curse much. #kidlitchat
2:26 am S_J_Bennett: @2KoP I agree. Every character should sound different. Grammar plays a key role in the voice of your characters. #kidlitchat
2:26 am marybrebner: @ShellieBr Sugarpops. Love it. I use Holy Cats a lot. And Crumbs. (hey, as a teacher I can’t *really* swear!) #kidlitchat
2:26 am AudryT: Writing a first-person narrator is definitely different than writing dialogue. Grammar can still bend, but not in the same way. #kidlitchat
2:26 am KrisYankee: @susanjsteward I write MG, but I let my characters say crap. that’s about as much swearing as it gets in my mss. #kidlitchat
2:26 am DeborahFreedman: @FictionNotes @KatApel Yes, it depends. But I’ve seen rhyming get in people’s way when they aren’t really comfortable with it. #kidlitchat
2:26 am emilyreads: I taught CATCHER IN THE RYE as student teacher; read aloud end part w/ “F you.” Kids were RIVETED, waiting to see if I’d say it. #kidlitchat
2:27 am kcclyburn: It’s harder for me to make up fake brand names. The store in my story that’s supposed to be Wal-Mart is called All-Mart, :- #kidlitchat
2:27 am lisabrowndraws: RT @emilytastic: @gregpincus Absolutely. The grammar used in dialogue should reflect the way the character would speak. #kidlitchat
2:27 am JennBailey: In the Movie The Fantastic Mr. Fox my kids were delighted by using the word “cuss” when they wanted to cuss. #kidlitchat
2:27 am lauramanivong: Why are you setting your story in the 90s or 80s? Is that becuz that’s the decade of your youth? Be careful with that… #kidlitchat
2:27 am adamselzer: Authenticity won’t let you get away with historical swearing. I’ve had to censor George Washington. #kidlitchat
2:27 am 2KoP: @emilytastic Not really talking about characters, more from a third person limited. #kidlitchat
2:27 am emilytastic: RT @AudryT: Writing a first-person narrator is definitely different than writing dialogue. Grammar can still bend, but not in the same way. #kidlitchat
2:27 am JEMACLEOD: @emilyreads Did you?? #kidlitchat
2:27 am himissjulie: @MardouLedger a story set in the mid 90’s is now technically hist. fic., so research and write as appropriate. :) #kidlitchat
2:27 am gregpincus: That may be the single most popular question I’ve ever asked here at #kidlitchat! I also agree that dialog has its own grammar rules.
2:28 am KatApel: @susanjsteward Guess I write for a kid I’d like mine to grow up to be. Heaps of disaster/laughter in mine – no swearing. #kidlitchat
2:28 am 2KoP: @pussreboots Haven’t read Dead Fathers Club. Was that in first or third person? #kidlitchat
2:28 am JessicaLeader: @emilyreads Hello! So what did you do? (re: reading CATCHER ‘f you’ out loud as student teacher?) Brave either way@ #kidlitchat
2:28 am FictionNotes: RT @KatApel: @susanjsteward Guess I write for a kid I’d like mine to grow up to be. Heaps of disaster/laughter in mine – no swearing. #kidlitchat
2:28 am EKokie: @emilytastic Not just dialogue. Thoughts also need to mimic speech patterns. People don’t think more formally than they speak. #kidlitchat
2:28 am thebookbarr: @susanjsteward I write MG, my characters generally don’t curse. Stronger lang. in frustration, but not generally in basic conv. #kidlitchat
2:28 am S_J_Bennett: @gregpincus Haha, glad to know we’re passionate about the dialogue/grammar combo. #kidlitchat
2:28 am kcclyburn: I think all my characters curse at varying degrees. Mayhaps I will have to re-evaluate their liberal use of cursing… #kidlitchat
2:28 am bonnieadamson: @FictionNotes @susanjsteward I think that’s why I do historical MG–my 1880s 12 yo doesn’t curse. #kidlitchat
2:28 am JessicaLeader: @KrisYankee Yes! ‘Crap’ is the gift from the gods when you write middle-grade. #kidlitchat
2:28 am emilyreads: I did! Not the first couple times it happened, but I did say it eventually. #kidlitchat
2:29 am KrisYankee: Fading fast. Will have to check the transcripts. Night, everyone. #kidlitchat
2:29 am 2KoP: Recently heard tbat books set in the 80s, before regular cell phone use are now considered historical fiction. #kidlitchat
2:29 am lisabrowndraws: Copyeditor changed our “bad” grammar recently but it was a stylistic choice. #kidlitchat
2:29 am gregpincus: Amazing that we’re not focusing on Junie B Jones, as many grammar/usage kidlit chats do. Kids know it’s wrong. But… love it. #kidlitchat
2:29 am KarenCollum: @KatApel See? Another reason why we’re good critique buddies :P #kidlitchat
2:29 am 2KoP: RT @JessicaLeader: @KrisYankee Yes! ‘Crap’ is the gift from the gods when you write middle-grade. #kidlitchat
2:29 am marybrebner: @emilyreads LOL. Mine look scared when come across cuss word. But I say, if it’s in the book, your choice to read it aloud! #kidlitchat
2:29 am susanjsteward: #kidlitchat. Love the first person narration in a Richard Peck MG. Blossom Culp’s style is so distinct to me. Heard Peck’s very anti-curse.
2:29 am JEMACLEOD: @2KoP I am considered historical. #kidlitchat
2:29 am hallietibbetts: @gregpincus Like real speech, modified to make it readable, if necessary. (Nice to have fewer ums and uhs than in real life.) #kidlitchat
2:29 am thebookbarr: @emilyreads Did you?? #kidlitchat (I’m riveted too!)
2:29 am KatApel: Ha! RT @2KoP: Recently heard tbat books set in the 80s, before regular cell phone use are now considered historical fiction. #kidlitchat
2:30 am kjerstinwittwer: Swearing depends on scene, too. “Nick & Norah’s Infinite Playlist” uses F about 7x per page but would seem fake if it didn’t. #kidlitchat
2:30 am clarkwriter: Same here. @KatApel: Guess I write for a kid I’d like mine to grow up to be. Heaps of disaster/laughter in mine – no swearing. #kidlitchat
2:30 am himissjulie: in kimchee & calimari, which is middle grade, the protag says “then XYZ said a really bad word” or something like that (cont) #kidlitchat
2:30 am BenDawe: I thought Grammar was what you put in a pie #kidlitchat
2:30 am Marty_Chan: @gregpincus Dialog meant to be heard. I often read aloud dialog sections to kids to make sure they work. #kidlitchat
2:30 am Jean_Hall: @timkeetonwriter when is #kidlitchat?
2:30 am lkstrohecker: People don’t always use correct grammar when speaking; chars. don’t always need to either. An authentic voice is more important #kidlitchat
2:30 am adamselzer: I would love to meet someone who could explain why “crap” is so much more acceptable than “shit.” The mysteries of prudery… #kidlitchat
2:30 am amyknichols: @gregpincus I’m reading Junie B. with my daughter for first time. It’s driving me CRAZY. Ugh!! The grammar!! #kidlitchat
2:30 am 2KoP: @JEMACLEOD Personally historical, or just your writing. #kidlitchat
2:30 am KatApel: @KarenCollum Definitely. Good buddies all round. Great to understand the whole… #kidlitchat
2:30 am AudryT: There’s universal cursing and culture-specific cursing. There’s even sub-culture cursing. Timeless vs. expiration date cursing. #kidlitchat
2:30 am pussreboots: @2KoP I believe it was in first person (memory’s rusty) It’s a retelling of Hamlet . Here’s my review: http://bit.ly/9BiUN2 #kidlitchat
2:30 am lisabrowndraws: So sad. I’m OLD. RT @himissjulie: a story set in the mid 90’s is now technically hist. fic. #kidlitchat
2:30 am ShellieBr: @susanjsteward I agree! I think that book was one of the first books that made me want to be a children’s writer! #kidlitchat
2:30 am gregpincus: @BenDawe I thought that was four and twenty blackbirds! #kidlitchat
2:30 am himissjulie: (cont) alluded to the fact the some middle graders swear, but sidestepped having to have the swear in print. nice move, I think. #kidlitchat
2:30 am shikokusue: @2KoP That’s another thing – technological references now quickly date books, I think. #kidlitchat
2:30 am kcclyburn: @kjerstinwittwer Indeed, and it never seemed excessive either. Well, maybe a little… #kidlitchat
2:31 am KarenCollum: Also avoid starting every sentence with, “Well…” in dialogue. So easy to do!! #kidlitchat
2:31 am kjerstinwittwer: @susanjsteward Agreed! I don’t think I’ve ever read a curse in Peck’s books… Strong vote for no swearing! #kidlitchat
2:31 am JEMACLEOD: @2KoP Well. I was around in the 80’s. Not my stories. :) #kidlitchat
2:31 am kcclyburn: @AudryT Elaborate… #kidlitchat
2:31 am melissaburon: In my reading class today I was explaining what a VCR was to a bunch of 7 year olds. #kidlitchat
2:31 am 2KoP: Not my kids. RT @gregpincus:Junie B Jones. Kids know it’s wrong. But… love it. #kidlitchat
2:31 am DDHearn: I’m late to the party. What’s the general topic? #kidlitchat
2:31 am gregpincus: @amyknichols But is your daughter loving Junie B, bad grammar and all? #kidlitchat
2:31 am thebookbarr: @gregpincus Agree! Junie B Jones drives me nuts to read aloud, but kids think it’s hilarious. #kidlitchat
2:31 am ShellieBr: @adamselzer because crap refers to the name of the inventor, who’s name was “Crapper.” Shit is just scatological #kidlitchat
2:31 am pussreboots: @amyknichols Junie B’s behavior bugs more than her grammar. She doesn’t act her age especially as she ages. #kidlitchat
2:31 am patricemichelle: Reading dialogue aloud is one of the best ways to catch problems #kidlitchat
2:31 am himissjulie: @lisabrowndraws my ya librarian told me that. She had a hard time putting the his. fic sticker on a book set in the 90’s. #kidlitchat
2:31 am adamselzer: @shikokusue @2Kop so do LACK of tech references. Tech is a fact of life. #kidlitchat
2:31 am KatApel: @KarenCollum Eeeeek. Weellll – I do that! #kidlitchat
2:31 am 2KoP: @shikokusue I think the technology issue is a huge one to consider these days. Can date you almost instantly. #kidlitchat
2:31 am KarenCollum: @himissjulie I do something similar. Don’t pretend it doesn’t exist but ‘he swore’ can be enough to convey event. #kidlitchat
2:31 am DeborahFreedman: @FictionNotes “Unskilled poets” is a nice way of putting it. Ouch. Painful to mine ears. #kidlitchat
2:32 am jrroper: @kcclyburn Keep them (curses) at the “breaking points” where they add power. #kidlitchat
2:32 am marcie8: me too RT @lisabrowndraws: So sad. I’m OLD. RT @himissjulie: a story set in the mid 90’s is now technically hist. fic. #kidlitchat
2:32 am BenDawe: @gregpincus Quite right …Grammar is for school. In Australia we have a brand of pie called “Four and Twenty”. #kidlitchat
2:32 am JEMACLEOD: @melissaburon That kinds of scares me…. #kidlitchat
2:32 am skodobah: Finally back! #kidlitchat
2:32 am happybluejess: @ShellieBr Random Ranger strikes again… #kidlitchat
2:32 am amyknichols: @gregpincus I can’t tell yet what she thinks of Junie B. She doesn’t seem as interested as with other books. #kidlitchat
2:32 am pussreboots: @kjerstinwittwer Peck is able to give the sense that characters are swearing w/out actually using swearing. #kidlitchat
2:32 am gregpincus: @2KoP I generalized :-) #kidlitchat
2:33 am melissaburon: As a children’s librarian, I think four letter words are much less controversial than they were ten years ago #kidlitchat
2:33 am susanjsteward: Anti-swearing and anti-censorship is what I’ve heard about Peck. Love that combo! #kidlitchat
2:33 am emilytastic: shikokusue And yet, if I forget to give my teenager a cell phone, it could seem inauthentic without an explanation. #kidlitchat
2:33 am shikokusue: @lauramanivong Suppose that one is writing about an event, like 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina. #kidlitchat
2:33 am ShellieBr: @happybluejess Hey Jess glad to hear from you tonight #kidlitchat
2:33 am DeborahFreedman: @patricemichelle Maybe reading anything aloud is a good idea. #kidlitchat
2:33 am KarenCollum: @BenDawe Another Aussie joins the crowd :) #kidlitchat
2:33 am BenDawe: RT @melissaburon: As a childrens librarian, I think four letter words are much less controversial than they were ten years ago #kidlitchat
2:33 am DDHearn: @melissaburon I still use my VCRs. Best way to record shows, in my opinion. #kidlitchat
2:33 am thebookbarr: Did you explain Beta/VHS?! RT @melissaburon In reading class today I was explaining what a VCR was to 7 year olds. #kidlitchat
2:33 am AudryT: Re: Diff. between “crap” and “shit”? Conditioning. Conformity. “Crap shows I’m making an effort to not be rebellious.” #kidlitchat
2:33 am 2KoP: @gregpincus My kids are definitely not general. I’ve turned them into grammar freaks. #kidlitchat
2:33 am emilytastic: @melissaburon I did not know you were a librarian! I like you even more now #offtopic #kidlitchat
2:33 am dosankodebbie: @kjerstinwittwer A western publisher once asked me to add cusswords to my Eng translation of Japanese novel that didn’t have any #kidlitchat
2:33 am lisagailgreen: Hope you don’t mind my jumping in, I find that I don’t curse all that much, but when I do (YA) it packs a punch #kidlitchat
2:33 am gregpincus: True. RT @fictionnotes Yes! Unskilled poets shouldn’t try to write rhymed pbs anyway! Or the poetry DOES get in the way of story #kidlitchat
2:34 am JessicaLeader: @gregpincus Grammar rules do change w dialogue, altho things like dangling participles still trip me up when I reread my work! #kidlitchat
2:34 am amyknichols: @pussreboots Ugh. We’ve only read a couple of chapters so far. Maybe I can start something new without her noticing. ;) #kidlitchat
2:34 am kjerstinwittwer: @pussreboots So true. Also gives the impression of violence and abuse without showing anything. He just hints but it works. #kidlitchat
2:34 am DaveSeow: RT @BenDawe: I thought Grammar was what you put in a pie #kidlitchat
2:34 am shikokusue: @emilytastic Just read An Na’s Wait For Me – no cellphones, but felt authentic. #kidlitchat
2:34 am S_J_Bennett: Have to split. Fun chat all! #kidlitchat
2:34 am BenDawe: @KarenCollum Cheers. #kidlitchat
2:34 am timkeetonwriter: @Jean_Hall Now – from 9PM ET to 10 or 11PM. search for #kidlitchat and you will see the tweets as they come through.
2:34 am emilyreads: Not a huge Junie B. fan, but she’s grown on me. Reading aloud makes it easier — she’s character w/voice, not bad grammar on pg. #kidlitchat
2:34 am marcie8: agreed RT @DeborahFreedman: @patricemichelle Maybe reading anything aloud is a good idea. #kidlitchat
2:34 am 2KoP: RT @DeborahFreedman: @patricemichelle Maybe reading anything aloud is a good idea. #kidlitchat
2:34 am TrinityFaegen: I think society as a whole tends to swear more now than in the past. Frankly I don’t give a damn was a BIG Deal. #kidlitchat
2:34 am lisabrowndraws: And to have an historical feel without being musty. Love him. RT @pussreboots: @kjerstinwittwer Peck characters. #kidlitchat
2:34 am AudryT: @kcclyburn Well, “fuck” is timeless and universal. But “friggin’ in the riggin’” was specific to its time and culture. ^_^ #kidlitchat
2:35 am clarkwriter: RT @DeborahFreedman: @patricemichelle Maybe reading anything aloud is a good idea. #kidlitchat
2:35 am timkeetonwriter: @Jean_Hall Tag your tweets with #kidlitchat and they will appear their as well. Good luck!
2:35 am himissjulie: @gregpincus nothing worse than a pb that fails in its attempt to rhyme. much prefer a good rhythm, ala monkey and me. #kidlitchat
2:35 am susanjsteward: #kidlitchat I don’t know about you guys but cell phone prevalence is really interfering with my ability to get my MG characters in trouble!
2:35 am skodobah: Love the cuss chat. #kidlitchat
2:35 am 2KoP: @emilytastic I think technology is so pervasive that the assumption is that it is there, even if you don’t make it central. #kidlitchat
2:35 am mrswritebrain: I remember being absolutely shocked as a 5th grader when our teach read HARRIET THE SPY. I thought FINK was THE Fword! #kidlitchat
2:35 am SuePinto: @adamselzer I say crap all the time and my characters in my MG novel say it all the time. I think it’s funnier than a swearing. #kidlitchat
2:35 am emilytastic: @AudryT @kcclyburn And “wicked pisser” (pronounce as you will) is regional. #kidlitchat
2:36 am JennBailey: @TrinityFaegen I remember an episode of MASH. They had to get special permission and put out a warning cuz they said Bitch. #kidlitchat
2:36 am mojobeenster: AnnickPress Great article on adult readers of YA… http://bit.ly/d5XBVE #kidlitchat
2:36 am KarenCollum: Why are publishers so gun-shy of rhyming PBs? I know not everyone can do them, but the great ones are REALLY great. #kidlitchat
2:36 am thebookbarr: I’ll never forget the big controversy with The Higher Power of Lucky over the word Scrotum. #kidlitchat
2:36 am kcclyburn: Also, I think my novel needs a “just”-and-”-ly”-ectomy. Anyone else find it necessary to remove “just” and adverbs from theirMS? #kidlitchat
2:36 am EgmontUSA: @clarkwriter @DeborahFreedman @patricemichelle I’ve always advocated readig allowed. It helps with rhythym. #kidlitchat
2:36 am amyknichols: @AudryT People said “friggin’ in the riggin”? I’ve heard “friggin” but not the rest. Maybe I’m older than I thought. *cringe* #kidlitchat
2:36 am JessicaLeader: @melissaburon Am wowed that 7-yr-olds don’t know from VCR. Did they get DVD, at least? #kidlitchat
2:36 am patricemichelle: @clarkwriter RT @DeborahFreedman: @patricemichelle Maybe reading anything aloud is a good idea. I agree! :) #kidlitchat
2:36 am lisabrowndraws: Have to go put child to bed and read him a on-rhyming pb. Hope to be back. Love the discussion. #kidlitchat
2:36 am pussreboots: @amyknichols Which Junie B are you suffering through? #kidlitchat
2:36 am skodobah: @mrswritebrain My 6th grade teacher said “shitty” by accident while reading Where the Red Fern Grows. I never forgot that. #kidlitchat
2:36 am AudryT: @TrinityFaegen I don’t think society (which society?) swears more now. We’ve just changed which swear words are weak vs. strong. #kidlitchat
2:36 am TrinityFaegen: All to say, unless a YA character is particularly wholesome, cussing seems authentic to me. I mean, it doesn’t bother me at all. #kidlitchat
2:36 am emilytastic: @2KoP I think it totally depends on the situation. Most teens I know have never used a payphone. #kidlitchat
2:36 am JEMACLEOD: Gotta run.. night kidlitters…kittylitters??? #kidlitchat
2:36 am skodobah: @kcclyburn Just wait a minute! #kidlitchat
2:37 am adamselzer: @SuePinto oh, sure, I use “crap” in books all the time. As a kid I used it more than words that could get me in trouble. #kidlitchat
2:37 am karianneholt: My son is 7 and he still thinks the S-word is “Stupid” :) RT @mrswritebrain: I thought FINK was THE Fword! #kidlitchat
2:37 am KatApel: Sorry – dropped out of cyberspace. Will now be behind… #kidlitchat
2:37 am KarenCollum: @kcclyburn I do a search for adverbs & ‘just’ – keep some, throw out others. #kidlitchat
2:37 am yachicka: @susanjsteward LOL – I agree! Everything comes down to ‘why didn’t she just dial the phone’? See that problem in movies too tho #kidlitchat
2:37 am shikokusue: @susanjsteward Make your characters Amish or something. :-) #kidlitchat
2:37 am melissaburon: @JessicaLeader DVD definitely – but anything before that is iffy #kidlitchat
2:37 am emilytastic: @kcclyburn Yes. Adverbs are always the first to go, no matter what I’m writing. Modifiers are evil. I also use “rise” too much. #kidlitchat
2:37 am himissjulie: @adamselzer george carlin covered shit on classic gold. also, shoot: “not foolin’ me. Shoot is shit with two o’s” #kidlitchat
2:37 am _strive: @kcclyburn I do. It’s like a weed. #kidlitchat
2:37 am EKokie: @susanjsteward Dead battery, waterlogged, no coverage, lost, destroyed-just explain inavailability. Or kid knows to call=trouble #kidlitchat
2:37 am susanjsteward: @kcclyburn “just” really creeps in with me. Also “really”! #kidlitchat
2:37 am skodobah: Caddyshack! #kidlitchat
2:37 am kjerstinwittwer: @kcclyburn Yes. I went through once with Find and Replace to pare the -lys and justs down… it was frightening. #kidlitchat
2:38 am DeborahFreedman: @KarenCollum because, unfortunately, most of them are NOT great. Truly. I’ve heard a lot of painfully awful rhyme. #kidlitchat
2:38 am ShellieBr: @kcclyburn Yeah, I search for all -ly #kidlitchat
2:38 am pj_hoover: RT ditto. hence the title conversation. @karianneholt: My son is 7 and he still thinks the S-word is “Stupid” :) #kidlitchat
2:38 am DDHearn: @AudryT I think swearing is more public now than, say, in my mom’s time. Men swore amongst themselves, but not with women. #kidlitchat
2:38 am jrroper: TV censorship and real world speech are totally different. People swore a whole lot throughout history. #kidlitchat
2:38 am mgbuehrlen: I think swearing is way less controversial now, which is why I think it’s losing its appeal for kids. (Just my own observation) #kidlitchat
2:38 am gregpincus: @KarenCollum Publishers aren’t shy of great rhyming pbs. Sadly, though, most manuscripts aren’t great rhyming PBs. #kidlitchat
2:38 am TrinityFaegen: @AudryT Hmm, maybe, but looking back, we never said the f-bomb in high school, or college – now, it’s all around. #kidlitchat
2:38 am 2KoP: @KarenCollum It’s very difficult to get both rhyme & rhythym done perfectly. When you do, it can be genius. #kidlitchat
2:38 am EgmontUSA: Another reason to consider using swears sparingly: it can limit sales. Some markets will not buy your book. #kidlitchat
2:38 am adamselzer: @himissjulie I always say “no one is gonna find themselves staring down a gun and say ‘oh, shoot.’” #kidlitchat
2:38 am shikokusue: @yachicka Cellphone batteries run out…Mine always do! #kidlitchat
2:38 am lisagailgreen: @susanjsteward Its hard to come up with an excuse like in Percy Jackson cells attract monsters! LOL #kidlitchat
2:38 am karianneholt: I’ll throw this out there – in my MG I had a lot of “craps” and “farts” in made-up semi-curses. My editor axed almost all ofthem #kidlitchat
2:38 am KatApel: @KarenCollum – I think translation is big problem for PBs. They don’t translate. #kidlitchat
2:38 am clarkwriter: @susanjsteward I come up with reasons they don’t have cell phones. Cheap parents, etc. #kidlitchat
2:38 am CarolTanzman: in Latino cultures stupid is a curse word (stupido). found that out the hard way when i used it with kids…. #kidlitchat
2:38 am wellversedmom: @KarenCollum I just assumed publishers don’t want people sending a bunch of crappily rhymed PBs. #kidlitchat
2:38 am KarenCollum: RT @gregpincus: @KarenCollum Publishers arent shy of great rhyming pbs. Sadly, though, most manuscripts arent great rhyming PBs. #kidlitchat
2:39 am skodobah: @jrroper Damn right! LOL! #kidlitchat
2:39 am 2KoP: @DDHearn I still don’t swear in front of parents, but I do in front of my kids. Go figure. #kidlitchat
2:39 am susanjsteward: @shikokusue Lol! That’s IT!! #kidlitchat
2:39 am BenDawe: Profanity is linguistic sewerage – but as Forrest Gump said, it happens #kidlitchat

To see part two of the transcript, please click here.

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